HC Deb 30 March 1854 vol 132 cc66-72
COLONEL HARCOURT

said, he rose to move for returns of the number of married women belonging to each of the regiments ordered on foreign service. It was his apprehension that the public sympathy might be exercised in a manner prejudicial to the discipline of the service, as it made no distinction between those who had married with leave and those who had married without. It was provided by the regulations that no soldier should be enlisted who was a married man—that no soldier, when enlisted, should marry without the leave of the commanding officer—and that if any soldier should marry without leave, he should not enjoy the same privileges as those who married with leave. The sympathy of the public had been greatly excited on behalf of the wives and children of the soldiers who had just gone on foreign service, and in some cases that sympathy had not been manifested with sufficient discrimination. He would take the case of Hawkins, the wife of a man in the Scotch Fusilier Guards. That man was married a year before he entered the service, but he declared himself to be an unmarried man, and the circumstance was not known until it was recently stated in the newspapers. The wife of this man was placed now in a better position than even the wives of those who married with leave. It had been reported that she had received in charitable subscriptions from 20l. to 50l. Now, he asked the House, was this the best mode of distributing charity, or rather, was it not one of the worst that could have been had recourse to? Much sympathy had been shown in this case, but their fair countrywomen had not shown a similar sympathy upon other occasions, when it was quite as much needed. Where was their sympathy for the wives and children of those soldiers who had been sent to quell the rebellion in Canada—or those who had been sent to India to maintain our Indian Empire—or those who were sent to Affghanistan—or those who were sent out to the Kaffir war? Even at this present moment there were two regiments fitting out for India, and he would ask whether public sympathy was not to be shown towards the women and children who would thus be left behind, and who were in just as much distress as the others? The fact was, that the wives and children of our soldiers, who were left in a necessitous condition on such occasions, ought not to be left to individual charity for their support, but should be relieved in some permanent way as a national burden. The hon. Member for Montrose (Mr. Hume), who used to be considered by the service as anything but the soldiers' friend, had expressed his opinion, at a recent public meeting, that the wives and children of soldiers should be left as legacies to the country's charge. Such sentiments did the hon. Member great credit, and he hoped the hon. Member would support any measure brought forward by which a permanent provision was established to meet the distress engendered among the dependents of the soldiers by such a state of things as the present. Before he stated the suggestions he wished to make to the House, he would, with permission, read a letter on this subject which he received from an officer commanding in the southwestern district. [The hon. and gallant Member then read the letter, in which it was stated that the charitable contributions towards soldiers' wives would be productive of consequences fraught with evil, unless they were dispensed with care and with discrimination.] Much misconception prevailed on this subject. The writer also alluded to an alleged statement of the hon. and gallant Member for Portarlington (Colonel Dunne), who said that the "fearful increase of married men" in the Army was in a great degree the result of the encouragement of commanding officers. His (Colonel Harcourt's) own experience taught him that, so far from commanding officers encouraging soldiers to get married, it was the occasion of much anxiety and annoyance to them. When the soldier was married, his earnings were often so much devoted towards the support of his family, that he became himself actually debilitated from want of nutritive food, and was obliged to go back to his mess. While upon this point, he could not help calling the attention of the Government to the very great evil which would be entailed upon all places where barracks were situated and upon all points of military embarkation, if the whole of these families of soldiers were, by the new Non-Removal Bill, to be thrown upon the parishes in which they were left. He could not, for instance, conceive a greater evil than would be entailed upon Portsmouth, where, in the course of a few years, perhaps, half the regiments in the service passed through on their way abroad. Another injustice created by the existing army regulations was, that while regiments, upon embarking for any of our Colonies, were allowed to be accompanied by the lawful wives of the men, in the proportion of six to every 100 men, including non commissioned officers—the wives receiving half and the children quarter rations—when a regiment left for active service abroad the embarkation of women was curtailed, and no provision at all was made for the support of those left behind, except that money was given to enable them to proceed to their homes. Now, he would suggest to the right hon. Gentleman the Secretary at War, that upon the occasion of all regiments going abroad, whether for active foreign service, or for colonial service, some allowance should be granted to the soldiers' wives, supposing no women were allowed to accompany the regiment—and that the six women, with their families, who would have been entitled to go out with their husbands, should receive the same allowance as if they had actually gone out—namely, half and quarter rations. He did not think the wives of those men who had married with leave of their commanding officers, and who had gone out to fight their country's battle, should be sent to the workhouse, and he did not see where there would be any room for imposition if relief were given to them, at the public expense, on a permanent footing, upon the production of a proper certificate from the commanding officer of the regiment. He felt it as a duty to the profession to which it was the pride of his life to have had the honour to belong, to bring this matter forward; and, if by the few observations he had made, any benefit accrued to the service, and the soldiers who had just gone out felt that their families at home were not neglected, it would be to him a matter of the highest satisfaction.

MR. SIDNEY HERBERT

said, he had no objection to the production of the returns for which the hon. and gallant Member had moved; but as there might be some difficulty in getting these returns accurately, perhaps the hon. and gallant Member would have no objection to the introduction into his Motion of the words, "so far as can be ascertained." He, to a great extent, agreed with the observations of the hon. and gallant Member. There was no doubt that an indiscriminate charity applied to the families of the soldiers ordered abroad would lead to very mischievous results. He had been in communication with some military men and others, by whose efforts a subscription for their relief had been originated, and he was happy to find that those gentlemen, from their practical experience on the question, were perfectly aware of the difficulties which beset the subject, and were disposed to administer the relief which the subscriptions at their disposal would enable them to afford, under regulations which he trusted would prevent the evils that might otherwise be anticipated. He believed that they had strictly adhered to the rule of recognising a distinction between the wives of those soldiers who had married with leave and those who had married without leave; and, having been put in communication with the depôts, they had been able to procure returns of the number of men married in the various regiments, and what the peculiar circumstances attending each case were, so far as they could be ascertained. It was the intention of these gentlemen, he understood, not to break through the rule of refusing relief to women marrying without leave, except in peculiar cases, where it would be an act of great inhumanity not to administer such relief. He thought the hon. and gallant Officer was under a mistake in his reference to the circular issued from the War Office on the occasion of the departure of the troops, as that circular made no change in the regulations, but was merely a summary of the existing regulations under which the wives are removed at the public expense to the parishes of their husbands. In the case of the soldiers who were quartered at Chobham, rations had been issued to the wives of soldiers left behind in the various localities by the regiments stationed there; but this had been done for the simple reason that it was a much cheaper process and more convenient for the public service, that the wives and families of soldiers should be rationed in the barracks from which the regiments had been marched, than that the quite unnecessary expense of sending them back to their parishes should be incurred. With regard to the proposal for establishing regulations whereby soldiers' wives should receive half rations, they not being allowed to accompany their husbands, he must inform the hon. and gallant Member that it was of importance to the troops that some women should accompany them, seeing that there were many things which could not be so well done without their assistance. He should be afraid, moreover, to establish a rule the effect of which might be taken to be that soldiers' wives should be always supported at the public expense. The rule of sending out six women to every 100 men had, he thought, better be maintained, as they were, as he had just stated, of use to the troops in washing and other matters, and would, no doubt, rather be sent out than be left at home. He might state that he was still engaged in making inquiries upon the subject, and endeavouring to ascertain whether some method analogous to that which was in use in the Navy might not be adopted with regard to the Army, and whether married soldiers could not be enabled to support their wives in their absence from home. There was, however, this difficulty in the case of the Army—that the soldiers' pay was smaller than the pay of the seamen, and his expanses were also greater, so that the surplus left to send home in the two cases was very disproportionate. He must guard himself against undertaking to adopt the system proposed by the hon. and gallant Member, but there was no doubt that anything which would tend to the encouragement among soldiers of marrying without the usual permission would lead to a great multiplication of those evils which were inseparable from any military system.

COLONEL LINDSAY

said, that a difference in the regulations on this subject between the Horse Guards and the War Office led soldiers to suppose that the rules existing with regard to those men who married without leave were not carried strictly into effect, and thus soldiers were induced to marry without obtaining the necessary leave. The only difference between soldiers embarking on this expedition and those who embarked upon regular colonial service was, that, in the present instance, two women less to every 100 soldiers were allowed to embark and were rationed, and instead of knowing for months beforehand their destination, they were in the present case hurried off at a very short notice. The number of women generally allowed to every 100 soldiers was six; but in the present case only four were allowed, and he should like to know from the right hon. Gentleman the Secretary at War if rations were to be continued to be allowed to the women left behind. He thought that, as the system of limited enlistment would shortly come into operation, it was worth while to consider the expediency of making some new regulations with regard to the marriage of soldiers. If a soldier under the new system, enlisted when he was eighteen years of age, he would be entitled to his discharge at the age of twenty-eight, and there were very many persons in different situations of life who were not able to marry before they were thirty years of age. He was decidedly of opinion that it would be advantageous to adopt some rules which should have the effect not only of discouraging the soldier from marrying without leave, but also of increasing the respectability and comfort of those who had married by leave of the proper authorities.

Return ordered, As far as can be ascertained, of the number of Married Women belonging to each of the Regiments ordered on Foreign Service, the numbers who are married with, and the numbers married without leave; and the number of children.