HC Deb 20 February 1854 vol 130 cc914-7
MR. BRIGHT

Mr. Speaker, I wish to put a question to the noble Lord the Member for the City of London, with respect to the proclamation which was issued by the Privy Council on Saturday last. I find that that Proclamation, after referring to "arms and ammunition," proceeds as follows:— Marine engines, screw propellers, paddlewheels, cylinders, cranks, shafts, boilers, tubes for boilers, boiler plates, fire-bars, and every article, or any other component part of an engine or boiler, or any article whatsoever which is, can, or may become applicable for the manufacture of marine machinery, shall be and the same are hereby prohibited either to be exported from the United Kingdom, or carried coastwise. Now it is well known to many Members of this House that there are large contracts at present in the course of being completed by firms in this country for almost all the countries in the world other than Russia. I have heard, for instance, that there is an order here for the construction of about 500,000l. worth of machinery for Denmark; and to some extent similar engagements have been entered into with parties in almost every other country in Europe, as well as in the United States of America. Then again I am told that there is a firm at Ipswich which is constantly in the habit of sending coastwise steam engines and boilers for agricultural purposes in this country. The business transacted in that branch of trade to which this Proclamation refers is very extensive; it gives employment to a large number of persons, and there is embarked in it a considerable amount of capital, and I take it for granted that the Government do not wish that there should be any uncertainty with regard to the precise meaning of the Proclamation. I should be glad, therefore, if the noble Lord would say whether the Proclamation is to be taken in the broad meaning which the words imply, or whether the Government intend to issue any notification by which trade may, as far as possible, be set free? There is another ground on which the parties engaged in that branch of manufactures wish to be made acquainted with the intentions of the Government. [Cries of "Order."] Well, I will not state that ground. But the House will easily understand that these parties will be damaged by the fact that all other countries can be supplied to any extent with those machines by the United States of America and by Belgium, and that our manufacturers would thus be exposed to a considerable disadvantage in their competition with foreigners.

MR. J. WILSON

Sir, as this is purely a Treasury question, and as the whole of these arrangements have taken place at the Treasury, it will, perhaps, be more convenient that I should answer my hon. Friend. The cause why this Proclamation was issued arose out of the following cir- cumstance:—in the middle of last week the Commissioners of Customs reported to the Treasury that a very large quantity of arms and ammunition were entered for exportation to Odessa. They thought it necessary to call the attention of the Treasury to the fact, and it became the immediate duty of the Treasury to consider with what power the law armed them to prevent that exportation. We were then advised by the Solicitor to the Customs that there was but one course properly open to us, and that was to avail ourselves of a clause in the Act passed last year for the consolidation of the Customs Acts. That clause empowers the Government to prevent at any time by a Proclamation or Order in Council the exportation of arms and various other articles to which my hon. Friend has alluded. We determined on adopting that course, for the purpose of preventing that and similar shipments. I ought to inform the House, that we have already taken steps empowering the Commissioners of Customs to instruct the whole of their Comptrollers, in the various ports of the United Kingdom, to act upon this Proclamation only in cases where they were not satisfied by the documents exhibited by parties who wished to make shipments of such goods, ammunition, or stores, that they were intended to be shipped to a country to which we could not possibly object. We had only a general rule to follow, and we could only enforce that rule by making it in the first instance applicable to all cases and to all countries without exception. To-morrow a Treasury order will be issued from the Custom-house, and will be promulgated throughout the whole of the United Kingdom, to the effect that no shipment of machinery or stores is in any way to be interfered with, unless there should be strong presumptive reason for concluding that they were intended for parties who are fighting against this country or the allies of this country.

MR. BRIGHT

Am I to understand that this Proclamation does not apply to shipments to any other port than the ports of Russia?

MR. J. WILSON

That is not exactly what I said. I will state a case which took place to-day, and which will show my hon. Friend what is the course which we mean to pursue. There was a vessel called the Gem entered for Alexandria, with a quantity of the machinery used in propelling steam-vessels. The Commissioners of Customs called on the parties who were sending that machinery, to furnish then with some satisfactory proof that it was destined for Alexandria. Those parties at once produced an order from an agent of the Pasha of Egypt, showing that the goods were intended for him; and no objection was then made to their shipment. In any other case of the kind goods can be forwarded without the slightest difficulty.