BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE. (Hansard, 7 February 1854)

§ SIR JOHN PAKINGTON
said, he rose pursuant to notice, to move that a Select Committee be appointed to consider whether, by any alterations in the forms and proceedings of the House, the despatch of public business could be more effectually promoted. The noble Lord the Member for London (Lord J. Russell) had upon a former occasion signified it to be his intention to offer no opposition to the appointment of a Committee, in connexion with the subject which he (Sir J. Pakington) was about to introduce to their notice. No opposition to his Motion would, he was given to understand, be made upon either side of the House, and he should, therefore, detain the House but a very few moments while he adverted to the subject to which it referred. Hon. Members must be well aware that a great pressure of business had prevailed in that House of late years. In the Session of 1848 that pressure had become so great that upon the Motion of the hon. Member for Melton (Mr. Evelyn Denison), a Committee had been appointed to inquire into the means by which it might be obviated. That Committee in its Report had stated that the time at their disposal—having only been appointed at the close of July—was so short as to prevent them from giving that consideration to the various suggestions which had been made for the pur- 315 pose of effecting an improvement in the mode of transacting public business which they desired. A strong impression prevailed out of doors that the greater portion of the time of Members of the House was occupied in talking. Now he did not feel perfectly sure that there was not some foundation for that impression. In the course of last Session fifteen hours and a half had been consumed by certain right hon. Gentlemen in making three speeches. The several offenders to whom he alluded were his right hon. Friend near him the late Chancellor of the Exchequer (Mr. Disraeli), the present Chancellor of the Exchequer, and the right hon. President of the Board of Control (Sir C. Wood). He could not presume to criticise speeches coming from such distinguished orators, though it was certain that the two Chancellors of the Exchequer ran what in sporting phraseology was termed a dead heat, and the President of the Board of Control had beaten them both. Now, although he (Sir J. Pakington) would not presume to criticise the speeches of those right hon. gentlemen, yet he might be permitted respectfully to state that in his humble opinion those speeches would have been better if they had been somewhat more brief. In the Report of the Committee to which he had alluded, he had found a statement to the effect that in the five years which elapsed between 1832 and 1837 the number of petitions which had been presented to the House was upon the average 7,436 for each year; that from the year 1837 to 1842 that average had been 14,014; while during the time which expired between 1842 and 1847 the number of petitions had increased to the annual amount of 16,397. The number which had been presented in 1848 was 18,450. He was perfectly aware that the time occupied in the presentation of petitions was not very important in extent; but he had mentioned the facts to which he had just called the attention of the House in order to demonstrate, though in a somewhat indirect manner, the ratio in which the general business of the House might be supposed to have increased of late years. He found also from the Report of the Committee that in the year 1848 forty-four public Committees had been appointed by the House—twenty-eight Election Committees, fourteen Railway Committees, and seventeen other Committees had also been appointed—while the number of Committees appointed to consider Private Bills had been 112, making 316 in the whole a total of 215 Committees appointed in that year. Now, he remembered that the noble Lord opposite had, in the course of last Session, requested that hon. Members would abstain from moving for new Committees, on account of the difficulty of procuring Gentlemen who were at liberty to give their services. Indeed, last Session the business of the House, generally, had been unusually heavy. Parliament had assembled in the month of November, 1852, and, with the exception of a few weeks, had continued to sit until the close of August, 1853. No doubt, a great amount of public business had during that time been transacted; but many important measures had, in consequence of the pressure upon the time of the House, been abandoned altogether; while others had been hurried with a precipitation which, in his opinion, was highly discreditable to that House as a legislative body. Another objection which might be urged against the existence of the present mode of proceeding in the House was, that the physical exhaustion to which it subjected hon. Members was likely to prevent men of high intellectual attainments, who could not undergo that degree of exhaustion without injury to their health, from devoting their time to the service of their country. The hon. Member for Salford (Mr. Brotherton) complained of the hours that were kept in the House; but unless some resolutions were come to relative to the form of transacting business on an improved method to that now adopted, he could expect no material change in this respect, as the House did not select from choice, but was compelled by necessity to sit late. It was to afford a remedy for such a state of things that he had deemed it advisable to make the present Motion. He must confess that he did not feel very sanguine as to the beneficial consequences which would result from the appointment of a Committee; but it must at all events be admitted that the names of the Gentlemen whom he had nominated to serve upon that Committee afforded a sufficient guarantee that no change would be made in the proceedings or forms of the House without due deliberation.

§ SIR GEORGE GREY
said, he would not oppose the formation of the Committee, but he must candidly confess he was without any very sanguine expectation of advantageous results from it. Its considerations would be confined to public as contra-distinguished from private business, and it 317 was the private business which caused that pressure on the time and convenience of the House of which they were all so painfully sensible. He was a member of the Committee which some five or six years ago, on the Motion of his hon. Friend the Member for Malton (Mr. Evelyn Denison), considered this subject, and which suggested various modes of facilitating the progress of public business; but it was the general impression of that Committee that it was not desirable to impose new restrictions on the privilege of debate which were likely to be regarded with disfavour by the House generally. From the Committee, however, there originated certain suggestions, some of which had been adopted by the House, and which had been found to work well. But the Session, nevertheless, had lasted quite as long as before. The fact was, that there was no hope for that House except in the good sense of its own Members, in confining themselves to the subject under discussion, and forbearing from making unnecessary speeches.

§ SIR HENRY WILLOUGHBY
said, he entirely concurred in this last observation. Unless hon. Gentlemen would restrain the flourishes of their eloquence, and come to the determination of only speaking when they had something to say, and avoid stating what had already been stated by others, the House would be harassed, overworked, and worried to the end of time. It was certainly desirable that there should be some improvements in the present mode of doing business, and, above all things, that long debates after midnight should be avoided. He could call the attention of the House to many occasions when important measures were pressed on between twelve o'clock at night and two in the morning; and he knew of cases where the clauses of a Bill were gabbled over at the rate of ten clauses a minute. He hoped that the Committee would direct their attention to the importance of providing a remedy for this crying evil.

§ MR. SPEAKER
said, that he would take that opportunity of stating that he had prepared during the vacation a Manual of the Forms and Rules of the House, and if the House thought fit to refer it to the consideration of the Committee, it might perhaps be found useful to them.

§ LORD JOHN RUSSELL
said, that the House was much indebted to the right hon. Gentleman for the preparation of so useful a work, and he should move that it be referred to the Committee.