HC Deb 13 December 1854 vol 136 cc241-51
VISCOUNT PALMERSTON

said, he rose, according to notice, to move for leave to bring in a Bill to enable Her Majesty to accept offers made by whole regiments, or portions of regiments of militia, for service out of the United Kingdom. Her Majesty's Government had been accused of having entered into the war, and of having undertaken a great and arduous enterprise without having provided any reserve. His answer to that accusation was, that the reserve upon which Her Majesty's Government had counted was the British nation. He was convinced that the expectation which they had formed would not be disappointed, and that by voluntary offers of service, either from the militia or from civil portions of the community, ample means would be afforded of carrying on the war with all that energy and vigour which the circumstances of the case might require. The principal means which Her Majesty's Government proposed for that purpose was that which this Bill was intended to afford. The Bill was framed upon the model of the Act which was passed towards the close of the last war, by which the Government of the day was enabled to accept the services of militia regiments then, for the purpose of more active service than it was the present intention of Her Majesty's Government now to ask them to volunteer for. It would be remembered that, at the close of the last war, after the militia had afforded very large and ample reinforcements to the line by the voluntary transfer of the services from one description of force to the other, an Act was passed by which regiments, or portions of regiments, were enabled to offer their services to join the army then serving under the orders of the Duke of Wellington. Under this Act militia battalions were raised, and proceeded for foreign service, through the influence of the Duke of Buckingham, Sir Watkin Wynn, Colonel Grey, and other persons of distinction. It was not the present intention of Her Majesty's Government to ask the militia to volunteer their services for the purpose of joining the army under Lord Raglan;—the object which the Government had in view was, that the militia should be invited to volunteer their services to do garrison duty in places in the Mediterranean, thereby setting free such regiments of the line as would otherwise be required for the purpose of those garrisons. Gibraltar, Malta, and the Ionian islands would probably be the places for which offers of service would be confined. Circumstances might happen which might induce Her Majesty's Government to ask militia regiments to volunteer for garrison duty in some of the North American colonies; but though the Bill which he should have to present would, for the sake of convenience, enable the Crown to accept the services of militia regiments for any place out of the United Kingdom, and though, of course, the offer which would be made to each regiment would specify the station for which their services were asked, the present intention of the Government was to limit that offer of voluntary services to the stations which he had mentioned in the Mediterranean. He had no doubt that that offer would be freely and amply made. It was impossible to do more than justice to the spirit by which the militia regiments had been actuated. He was happy to say that the reports which had been made by the officers who were appointed to inspect them at their periodical trainings were such as to inspire a conviction that they had made most extraordinary progress in the attainment of military discipline and efficiency, and he was convinced that the regiments of militia which might volunteer for service in any garrison would be as efficient for that purpose, and as creditable to the country to which they belonged, as any regiment of the line whose place they might be sent out to fill. He was happy to say that there had hardly been a single exception—he thought not one exception—to the general offer of militia regiments to be embodied for permanent duty at home, and that circumstance led him to think that they would not be disappointed in their expectations, but that they would receive quite as many offers for garrison duty as the necessities of the case would induce them to accept. He did not know that he need say anything further, as he could not anticipate that there would be any objection to the Motion he had made. He was sure that the militia regiments would think that they were doing no more than was due to their own honour in availing themselves of the opportunity of serving in the places which he had mentioned; and that officers of militia would not only encourage their men to volunteer their services from the militia to the line, but that regiments, and portions of regiments, amply sufficient to meet the wants of the garrisons abroad, would offer themselves for this extended service.

MR. NEWDEGATE

said, that he understood the proposition of the noble Lord to be that the militia regiments would be asked whether they were willing to proceed to Gibraltar, Malta, the Ionian Islands, or, perhaps, to some of our North American colonies, in order to replace troops who would thereby be made available for the war, but that those militia regiments themselves would not be called on to reinforce the troops engaged in actual hostilities. He was quite certain that he spoke the general feeling of the militia regiments, when he said he was confident that as many of their numbers as could possibly be spared from their occupations in this country would most willingly accept this service; but he wished to put a question to Her Majesty's Government. It had been admitted by all the Ministerial statements, that the army before Sebastopol had, ever since the expedition had been in the Crimea, been left without an available reserve to meet cases of emergency. He wished, therefore, to know whether this Bill was intended to be subsidiary to the formation of an army of reserve which should be within practical reach of Lord Raglan before Sebastopol? In short, he wanted to know whether the army in the Crimea was to continue to be an army without an available reserve? This question was of so much the more importance, inasmuch as nothing that had passed gave a reason to trust that the co-operation of Austria would prevent the concentration of the Russian forces against our Crimea expedition; and, therefore, it was only due to the gallant men who had been exposed to such fearfully unequal contests as might have been obviated with due preparations, that it should be stated whether or not the present Bill was to be subsidiary to the formation, in the Mediterranean, at Constantinople, or some station in the Black Sea, of some army of reserve upon which Lord Raglan might rely as a basis of his operations?

MR. S. HERBERT

said, that he should, perhaps, be excused for interposing for a moment to state, in answer to the question of the hon. Gentleman, that Her Majesty's Government were as sensible as he was of the necessity of forming, as expeditiously as possible, an efficient reserve force for Lord Raglan's army. The great difficulty, among numerous difficulties in this case, was the distance between this country and the seat of war; but it was the intention of the Government to form additional companies to every regiment under Lord Raglan's command, and place them, as soon as they have passed through their preliminary drill, in that position which would render it most convenient for Lord Raglan to send for them at any moment that he might require their services; these additional companies would, therefore, be stationed as a reserve at Malta. Malta was considered to be the place which would offer the greatest facilities for rapid communication, on the part of Lord Raglan, with the detachments sent thither, and on which he might at any moment lay his hand. The accommodation at Malta was not so large as he could wish, but, as far as it went, it would be made available for the purpose he had stated. He would now only add, that the hon. Gentleman and the House might rest perfectly satisfied that Her Majesty's Government felt the urgent necessity of creating and maintaining an efficient reserve, and that they would spare no pains to carry out that object.

SIR J. PAKINGTON

inquired what would be the number of the proposed reserve?

MR. S. HERBERT

replied, that the Government hoped to be able to raise four additional companies to every regiment, but the whole number could not be obtained in a day. The garrison accommodation at Malta would not enable them to place a greater number of companies there, but he repeated that, as far as its capacities went, a reserve corps would be formed there.

COLONEL SIBTHORP

said, that both the noble Lord and the right hon. Gentleman should be aware of the present denuded state of the militia force, and of the great difficulty of meeting the additional demand that would be created under this Bill. The regiment he had himself the honour to command had sent upwards of 150 fine fellows to the infantry regiments of the line, and he believed that by their conduct in action they would prove a credit to their country. With regard to the noble Lord's present Bill he had but one remark to make. Were the militia regiments to which this Bill referred, to be kept on colonial stations merely to supply the places of other troops, who would be allowed to carry off all the laurels, or were they to be permitted to display their valour in the field and share the glory won by the other forces of the country?

SIR J. WALSH

said, that he had little doubt but that the anticipations of the noble Lord the Home Secretary would be realised, and that no objections would be offered to this measure from any quarter, either on its introduction, or during its progress through its future stages in that House. The concurrence of the noble Lord the President of the Council might be inferred from his being a Member of the Cabinet who brought forward this measure; and it was hardly to be expected that the hon. Member for Manchester (Mr. Bright) and his friends, however stedfast their objection to a Bill of this kind, would offer any decided opposition to a measure which would meet with the universal assent of the country. But he had one suggestion to make to Ministers, which appeared to him in the light of a necessary complement of this measure. We had sent almost every available soldier we had to the Crimea; but our reinforcements had not been sent out in a manner to achieve any great result. They had been sent out in mere driblets to contend with all the chances of battle and the ravages of disease; and our army was now to be exposed to the rigour of a severe winter in a foreign clime. We must, therefore, before it was too late, prepare those reserves which might be requisite next year. Now, it would only be the necessary complement of this measure, enabling the militia to volunteer, as he believed they would readily do, for foreign service, that we should at the same time embody the whole of our militia. If this was to be an arduous struggle—as no doubt it would—were we to be behind the exertions of the country in former periods of its history? In 1813 we had a regular army of 240,000 men on foot, and then the whole of the militia was embodied; and in the same year we had also a navy with 140,000 seamen and marines. Such were the gigantic armaments with which we engaged in a great contest, at a period when our resources and our population were far inferior to what they were at present. Now, the militia was, in point of fact, our reserve—it was the body from which we were to train and form an army. A militia was available in two ways—first, as being in itself an efficient and disciplined corps; and next, as being an excellent feeder and nursery to the line; and in both of these respects it was absolutely necessary that we should not content ourselves with taking the bare power to enable the militia to volunteer for foreign service, but that we should embody the whole militia force, whether English, Irish, or Scotch; for it did appear to him, in a struggle of this kind, when the people of all parts of the kingdom had shown such zeal and loyalty, that no invidious distinction of nationality should be drawn in respect to this force.

MR. BANKES

said, that as the measure of the Government was intended as an effectual mode of placing at Lord Raglan's disposal a reserve force, it could hardly meet with opposition from the House, although undoubtedly it would be considered a measure of the very greatest importance, dealing as it did with the great constitutional force of the kingdom. But since it was a means of so essential a character for the production of a reserve force, he felt himself entitled to ask Her Majesty's Ministers why it was not resorted to at an earlier period? There were those on that side of the House during the last Session who pressed on Her Majesty's Government the expediency of having an autumnal meeting of Parliament; but, so far from the proposition meeting with a cordial reception, on the contrary, it was received with expressions of a very opposite character. And though at last it had been determined to call Parliament together at an unusual period of the year, it naturally occurred to ask, why had not that step been taken as soon as they knew the hazard to which our brave troops were exposed? Why was not Parliament then called together to have submitted to them this mode of providing a reserve force? That gallant army would thus have been encouraged, and Ministers would have been providing for a contingency which they knew must occur. Had these volunteers been sent out two months earlier it might have made a very essential difference in the position of affairs in the Crimea. Hence, under the circumstances, it was impossible to raise any objection against the scheme, always supposing that the services to be required were entirely voluntary, both as regarded officers and men. No doubt the provisions of the Bill would require some attention, for it must be remembered that these men were engaged for only a limited period of service, of which he believed from two to two years and a half were still unexpired; but, remembering that it was meant for the relief of our gallant countrymen, he could in no other respect offer the measure any opposition.

LORD LOVAINE

said, he was very sorry to have to give utterance to the opinion that this measure would very seriously interfere with the means of recruiting our regular army. It was one which had been resorted to during the last war, but not until almost the close of it, when the resources of the country had been already sorely tried; such, however, was not the case at present, for the very regiments from which these volunteers were to be taken had actually not as yet been even embodied. Nor ought it to be forgotten that the system of recruiting for the militia was not what it used to be at a former period, it being now merely voluntary; and the consequence of that would be, that in case the measure of the Government were adopted, the relatives of the class of recruits would throw every obstacle in the way of their enlistment, as it would be made dependent on the will of a majority of any particular regiment whether a man could be compelled to go on foreign service. He should, therefore, feel compelled, most anxious though he was to second any exertion that might be made to improve the military resources of the country, to oppose a measure which he believed would be productive of very serious consequences, and very likely to interfere much with the final results of the war.

MR. PALK

believed that a deep debt of gratitude was due to those who had so efficiently raised and recruited the different militia regiments. It was well for this na- tion, no matter in whose hands the administration of affairs might be placed, that she could trust with firmness and confidence in the patriotism and firmness of the country gentlemen of England. But when an appeal was made in that direction—when they called on the labouring classes of the country—they must remember that they not only robbed the national industry, but took away the pith and marrow of the agriculturists, of those who raised the crops of the country; and that they thereby threw upon the poor rates of the rural districts the support of the wives and children of these men, who might perish or be disabled. Now, he would beg to express a hope that the noble Lord had in his Bill introduced a provision providing for the support and sustenance of the families of militia soldiers. Hence his great object in rising was simply to ask a question, which he believed could be readily answered. If he was not mistaken, he had heard it stated last night, and stated, too, emphatically, that no winter clothing had been sent out by the Prince to the army of the Crimea. On the other hand, he found, on looking into a report of the speech of a Cabinet Minister, made on the same occasion in another place, it was not only asserted that winter clothing had been so sent out, but also there was a list of articles enumerated. Now, he desired to know which of these statements was the correct one?

VISCOUNT PALMERSTON

begged to state, in reply to the question which had just been asked, that there was a great quantity of winter clothing sent out by the Prince. He spoke under correction, but he should say, from recollection, that there were from sixty to eighty tons of winter clothing on board that unfortunate vessel; and had it not been for the disastrous calamity which befell her, that winter clothing would have been in possession of the troops before any severe weather had set in. His right hon. Friend (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) told him that the value of that winter clothing was from 25,000l. to 30,000l. Now, he was very glad that the noble Lord the Member for Northumberland (Lord Lovaine) made his objection to the Bill which he now proposed, because it enabled him to state, with more distinctness than, perhaps, he stated at first, that, under the provisions of the Bill, no one man could possibly be sent out of the country without a distinct voluntary offer of his services. It would not be, as the noble Lord supposed, that the majority of a regiment would bind the minority; but there must be, in regard to each officer and private, a distinct offer of his individual services; and under no circumstances—indeed, there was a special proviso to that effect introduced in the Bill; under no circumstances could any man be compelled to serve out of the country without his own distinct offer and consent; and that offer and consent were to be recorded by a fresh engagement to serve during, not only the continuance of the period for which he had been originally engaged, but even during the continuance of the war itself. He wished, therefore, to be understood as saying that no man would be liable to serve unless he was a willing and consenting party to such extension of service. An objection has been made with regard to the time at which this Bill has been proposed. An hon. and learned Member said it ought to have been proposed sooner. Why, every measure might be liable to objection as to point of time; it might be said that it was proposed too soon or too late, The value of such objections must depend altogether upon the circumstances under which the measure was proposed, and upon the character and conduct of those who proposed it. He brought forward the measure now, and whatever objections hon. Members might entertain as to the measure being too soon or too late, he hoped that such objections would not induce them to offer any opposition to it. He should be wanting in fairness if he did not take this opportunity of referring to the great services rendered by the late Government to the country in proposing and carrying the measure by which the militia service was provided for. He was sure that the views of those hon. and right hon. Members who sat opposite were to do justice to each other irrespective of their political opinions; and he was sure that the Members of the late Government, who had the credit of carrying through Parliament that important measure, would feel that the Bill which he proposed to introduce would only tend to give greater effect and more extended efficiency to their measure for the restoration of the militia force—a measure which was due to their own sagacity and prudence.

SIR JOHN PAKINGTON

said, he only rose for the purpose of settling a question of fact. In his speech of last night he gave the Government credit, upon such information as he possessed, for sending out for the troops in the East a large quantity of warm clothing, which, however, was unfortunately lost in the tempest of the 14th November. From some of the observations just made by the noble Viscount, he was induced again to bring the subject forward. After he had addressed the House last night, he was told that he was mistaken in what he had said upon this subject, and that there was no special warm clothing sent out to the Crimea. His right hon. Friend the Member for Buckinghamshire (Mr. Disraeli), in his speech last night, stated—as far as he was informed—that he gave the Government credit for what was not really the truth. Now, he concurred with the noble Viscount opposite that we were always bound to assist each other, as far as it was possible, in giving credit where we feel credit to be due. With that view he stated last night that the Government had sent out warm clothing for the troops in the East. Let, however, the whole truth be known. He therefore hoped that some Member of the Government would answer the question—namely, what was the kind of clothing sent out to the East in the Prince? Was it what he (Sir J. Pakington) had believed it to be—namely, warm clothing to meet the special requirements of the Crimean climate—warm clothing sent out on account of the particular position occupied by the troops in the East; or was it only the ordinary winter uniform? A great deal might turn upon the way in which this question was answered. He was sure that the Government would be most unwilling to take credit for an act which they had not performed. The question was this—Whether the Government deserved the credit which he had given them last night, and whether they had really sent out to the East that particular description of clothing which the troops so much required while they occupied so exposed a position in the Crimea?

VISCOUNT PALMERSTON

said, the best way of answering the question was by producing the returns of what clothing had been sent out, and that should be done immediately.

MR. E. B. DENISON

considered that it was of great importance that they should distinctly understand the nature of the invitation to be sent to the militia. It had been said that an invitation would be sent to each regiment, and the noble Lord had also stated that every man would have an opportunity of volunteering. There was a vast difference between the two propositions; some regiments from the colonel to the men might volunteer, in other regiments only a portion might do so; but he could not help thinking that every man, from the colonel to the drummer, ought to be asked, and that no imputation should be allowed to rest on any portion of a regiment which did not volunteer, as both officers and men, from various reasons, might be unable to allow their services to be transferred even to Malta.

COLONEL GILPIN

asked whether, after the service of the militia was done with, any of the younger officers would be allowed to transfer to the line; or, as in the case of last war, whether they would receive any half-pay or remuneration for their past services? He thought it was most material to ascertain that point.

Motion agreed to.

Bill read 1°.

The House adjourned at a quarter after Three o'clock.