HC Deb 20 December 1852 vol 123 cc1716-7
SIR GEORGE PECHELL

moved for a Return of the unappropriated Iron Ordnance in store at Woolwich and the outports for the land and sea service; distinguishing the serviceable, unserviceable, and obsolete; and Return showing the number of Iron Ordnance condemned as unserviceable in each year since 1848, and how disposed of, and, if sold, the price paid for the same.

COLONEL DUNNE

said, there had been a sale of the old Ordnance every quarter to the extent that people would buy them. He considered that it was inconvenient under present circumstances to give this Return.

SIR GEORGE PECHELL

said, it was convenient enough to come down to the House the other night for 8,000l. for new Ordnance, which was granted, and he did not see why it was inconvenient to give this Return. They got that 8,000l., though he (Sir G. Pechell) stated at the time that there were more than 14,000 serviceable guns in the different arsenals.

COLONEL DUNNE

said, that he would rather leave the granting of the Return to the discretion of his successor, who probably might be the hon. and gallant Member.

MR. HUME

said, he must express his surprise that any opposition was made to this Return. This pretension of secrecy was a perfect mockery. The French Go- vernment knew perfectly well how many guns we had in our arsenals, and how many were fit for service; and if we were to send a person over to France, he could get the same information concerning theirs.

SIR FREDERICK SMITH

said, he hoped the Return would be given. He hoped, also, it would not be imagined that because they had a vast number of guns of small calibre, they were not in want of guns of a more moderate construction and larger calibre.

LORD DUDLEY STUART

said, it was remarked a few days ago that the Members of the Government were well received at Guildhall, and the next day the Sheriffs of London appeared at the table with a petition against the Government measures; and they had the hon. Member for Montrose (Mr. Hume) praising Ministers a few minutes ago for their readiness to give information, and now blaming them for refusing information.

GENERAL ANSON

said, it would be quite proper that the Return should be given: he apprehended there was no wish for concealment, but, under the circumstances, notice had better be given for the next meeting of the House.

MR. WALPOLE

had no doubt the hon. and gallant Member would get his Return if he would move for it another day. It was not of an immediately pressing nature.

SIR GEORGE PECHELL

said, he was only asking for a continuation of a former Return, and he would divide the House if the Motion were resisted.

SIR ROBERT H. INGLIS

apprehended that the numbers present would not enable the hon. and gallant Member to gain his object by a division.

Notice taken, that Forty Members were not present; House counted; and Forty Members not being present,

The House was adjourned at half after Five o'clock till Thursday.