PATENTS.

HC Deb 01 April 1851 vol 115 cc890-5

COLOXEL SIBTHORP moved for a return of the expenses incurred in taking out patents in England, Ireland, and Scot- land respectively. He said, as Her Majesty's Government seemed determined to oppose these Returns, he had no hesitation in saying, that he looked with suspicion on their motives. In the year 1829, a Committee was appointed to consider the law of patents; and, after taking a great deal of evidence, they came to this important conclusion:— At the present late period of the Session, they are only prepared to report the Minutes of Evidence taken before them, with the several documents; and they earnestly request the House that the inquiry may be resumed early in the next Session. No further step had, however, been taken in the matter; and he believed nothing would have been done but for the Exhibition of the Industry of all Nations; in the getting up of which, the interests of foreigners had been consulted, and not the interests of this country. Since 1829, they had all been asleep respecting the good of the country, and the freedom of the country. A patent went through a great many offices, and there were a great many fees. It went through the hands of the Secretary for the Home Department with fees, and the Attorney General with fees. It went to the Signet Office for fees; to the Privy Seal for fees; and to the Lord Chancellor for fees, and he firmly believed for nothing else. He would tell them what some of those charges were. He would begin with England. The Attorney General charged for his Report three guineas; clerk, one guinea; if a caveat were entered, 5s.; to the clerk of the Attorney General for approving, and signing, and settling the hill, 5l. If the patent were approved of, there was another charge for the clerk, 5s.; hearing before the Attorney General, 2l. 12s. 6d.; clerk ditto, 10s. 6d. Then there was the reference to the Attorney General, 2l. 2s. 6d., Royal warrant, 7l. 13s. 6d., and if the patent extended to the colonies and plantations abroad, 1l. 7s.] 6d. Then if they went to Scotland, there was the reference to the Lord Advocate, 2l. 2s. 6d., Royal warrant, 16l. 17s. 6d.: if granted to more than one person, 2l. 15s. for each person. Then came Ireland, reference to the Attorney General, 2l. 2s. 6d., warrant and stamp, 9l. 9s. 6d. These were some of the expenses which the unfortunate inventor was called upon to pay. But this was not all; ho was to be subject to all kinds of foreign competition. They were to have an Exhibition, and all kinds of foreigners were to come here, talking all kinds of gibberish. Of course, the English people would not understand them, and they would get into all kinds of disturbances. Suppose a case: A foreigner called a cabman, and told him to drive him to a certain place; the cabman could not understand him, and before he knew what he was about he would have something like a stiletto in him. And for what? For the Industry, forsooth, of all Nations. He believed that people were growing more and more averse to the whole affair. It was only that very day that he had heard some very respectable persons express their regret at the opening of any such Exhibition; and, for his own part, he heartily prayed, would to God that it might be washed down by the rains of April. The Government had introduced a Bill for the special protection of foreigners; but they had not thought of protecting the ingenuity of Englishmen. Foreigners would come and pirate the inventions of our countrymen, and he did not blame them for it; they would take them home, make up the same manufactures at a cheaper rate, and then send them here and undersell the ingenious and laborious mechanics of our own land. He did, therefore, call upon the House to prevent these gross attacks upon the privileges of Englishmen. It was the duty of Her Majesty's Government to stand up for the rights and liberties of the country; and he, for one, should ever protest against the Government Bill. He denied that there could be any valid objection to the granting of the Returns for which he had moved. The public had a right to be informed whether any reduction had been made since 1829, when the Committee to which he. Had alluded, sat. He repeated, that there could be no objection. Surely there was nothing mysterious about the matter. To be sure, it might not be pleasant to persons of higher station to have the thing exposed; and perhaps his observations might be equally unwelcome to them. But then he was not a spaniel, to wag his tail at the bidding of the persons in a high position. He moved for these returns solely for the benefit of persons in a humble sphere. He could assure the House that he had not the slightest personal feeling in the matter. He had never invented anything, and he thought it was not likely that he ever would; for he had not the inventive faculty. His motive in asking for these returns was, that he might bring forward a Motion to diminish the expense of obtaining patents, and to remove the serious obstacles which lay in the way of the poor man in availing himself of his own ingenuity.

Motion made, and Question put— That an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty, That She will be graciously pleased to give directions, that there be laid before this House, Return of the Expenses incurred in taking-nut a Patent in England, Ireland, and Scotland respectively, independent of the specification, distinguishing the items or heads of that Expense: and specifying the several offices in which fees are demanded and made payable, and manner in which the ices are appropriated; also the highest and lowest expense of specification: Also Return of the Expenses incurred at the Attorney or Solicitor General's Offices for taking out a Patent in England, distinguishing I In- items or heads of those Expenses: Similar Return for Scotland And, Similar Return for Ireland.

MR. CORNEWALL LEWIS

assured the hon. and gallant Gentleman that there was not the smallest objection to affording the information for which he asked. The fact was, however, that the whole of it was already on the table of the House in a perfectly accessible form. The lion, and gallant Member would find it in the appendix of the Report of the Committee upon the Privy Seal and Signet Offices, which was presented last Session; but if the hon. and gallant Colonel should discover that it was at all deficient on any point, the additional information should be furnished on a future day. He, therefore, hoped the House would not consent to a Motion which would entail needless expense.

MR. LENNARD

said, that he should support the Motion of the hon. and gallant Officer; at the same time he regretted that much extraneous matter had been introduced by him. The evils of the patent laws had been pointed out in the evidence of a Committee of which he was Chairman many years ago. Some of those evils had been removed by Lord Brougham, but many still remained; of those the chief was the want of a tribunal competent to decide on the merits of inventions, and of the claims of applicants. Such a tribunal should be composed of a mixture of scientific men and lawyers. But the want of arrangement in the present patent offices was so bad that it was often impossible, for want of good indices, to ascertain whether the invention had been patented or not already. But the great evil was the expense—amounting to above 350l. for England, Ireland, and Scotland, to say nothing of the colonies. This heavy expense was occasioned by the numerous offices through which the applicant for a patent had to go, and which were useful I formerly as a protection to the Crown from being imposed on, but which were merely useless in these days. The heavy expense of obtaining a patent was manifestly contrary to good policy; we ought to encourage improvements by giving inventors the exclusive use of their discoveries for a limited period, after which the public should! have the benefit of it. It was well known that poor workmen were the chief inventors; but the heavy expense of a patent made it impossible for them to apply for one, so that cither the idea was never I worked out, or was sold to some capitalist, who gave to the inventor a small part of that which ought to be wholly his. He had long felt the evils of this system, and had thought of bringing in a Bill on the subject himself; but where there were so many vested interests to be dealt with, he felt that it was too great a task for a private Member, and could only be satisfactorily dealt with by the Government, and he hoped the Government would undertake it. Mb. LABOUCHERE trusted that the House would not be induced to enter at present upon a very important and one of the most difficult subjects that could engage their attention, namely, what would be a proper law for patents in this country, especially as, before a few days would elapse, his noble Friend Earl Granville would introduce into the other House a Bill, embodying the views of Her Majesty's Government upon that subject. He would assure the hon. and gallant Member for Lincoln that if there was any matter on which he wished for information that he could not find in the appendix to the report if the Committee on the Privy Seal and Signet Offices, the Government would feel very happy in affording it.

MR. AGLIONBY

thanked the right hon. Gentleman (Mr. Labouchere) for his statement; and lie hoped that, as the hon. and gallant Colonel had often objected to the expense of unnecessary returns, he would not press his Motion.

MR. ALDERMAS SIDNEY

regretted that the Government had objected to the returns, for he thought the fact, that the House would soon be called upon to consider a measure on the subject, was a reason why it was advisable to reprint the information in a separate form. He considered that the present law was a disgrace to the country.

Mr. S. CRAWFORD

thought the returns should be granted, for the informa- tion was not intended for Members only who had access to the reports of Committees, but also for the use of the public.

Mr. CAREW

said, that papers had been laid on the table within the last ten days, containing every item of the information for which the hon. and gallant Member now asked. He alluded particularly to the evidence of Mr. Capelain, the patent agent, before the Committee of the House of Lords, a copy of whose proceedings had been communicated to that House.

SIR G. GREY

said, his right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Trade had stated that if the hon. and gallant Member could point out any information which Members were not already in possession of, he was perfectly ready to supply that information; but there was clearly no use in calling for trade returns setting forth that which was already well known to the House.

MR. DISRAELI

hoped that his hon. and gallant Friend, having attained his object, for he understood that the Government virtually conceded all that his hon. and gallant Friend required, would not now press his Motion. The object was one of importance; and as the Government had promised to complete all information concerning it, he took for granted that his hon. and gallant Friend would not think it necessary to divide.

COLONEL SIBTHORP

was resolved to take the sense of the House, if it were only for the purpose of stimulating the Government, and enforcing their attention to this important subject.

The House divided:—Ayes 39; Noes 70: Majority 31.