SECURITIES FOR ADVANCES (IRELAND). (Hansard, 25 March 1850)

The SOLICITOR GENERAL

hoped, notwithstanding the lateness of the hour, the House would allow him shortly to explain the provisions of a Bill which he wished to introduce to provide more ample and effectual securities for advances to purchasers of incumbered estates in Ireland, and which he was anxious to have printed, so that it might circulate throughout Ireland during the Easter recess. The House was aware, under the Incumbered Estates Commission, the operation of the Act on the subject had been very extensive, and according to the last report, property, upon which there were mortgages to the amount of 13,000,000, had come under the operation of the commission. The House would see that the Act operated in two ways. The one class affected were persons who had taken or inherited estates upon which there were not personal mortgages, but the land itself was subject to mortgage. It was very much to the interest of that class of persons to depress the value of such land, and then become the purchasers, with, in point of fact, reduced mortgages on it. They would borrow the money to purchase, and they would get the land at a reduced value. The other class was composed of persons who were liable for the payment of debts, who would be severely affected by the depreciation of property. It would have a serious effect, and cause land to be sold at a less value than it really possessed. In order to avoid this circumstance, they had devised a plan which it was hoped would induce capitalists from England to take an interest in these sales. Now, supposing we got purchasers for all the land, and had paid ten or twelve millions of these incumbrances, there would 1415 then immediately be persons possessed of ten or twelve millions all looking out for investments, and at the same time there would be drawn from other places ten or twelve millions to buy this land, and considerable depression in the money market might be the consequence. It was, therefore, desirable to provide an easy means by which these mortgagees would be able to find security for their property. It was also desirable to point out some clear mode by which you might have a mortgage on land, giving the form of it in the Act of Parliament, in which case it would not be necessary to go to a lawyer at all previously, but you would be able to get a plain and simple form under which you would be able to get a perfect security that should be chargeable on the property, and as transferable as a bill of exchange. To attain this, it was proposed that there should be a power to charge land sold under the Incumbrance Estate Act in favour of persons who had advanced part of the purchase-money, provided the charge did not exceed one-half of that purchase-money. A certificate of the charge would be granted by the commissioners, and the certificate would refer to a conveyance that would be registered, and the certificate would itself, or a duplicate of it, be registered in the registry office. The charge would not be a charge given by persons who purchase the land, but it would be a primary charge, subject to which a person would take the land; so that the House would see that no Act of his would affect or encumber that property. When a man sought to sell property in Ireland, he had to show, if there was a judgment against a person of the same name, that he was not that person. The effect, therefore, would be, that, under this conveyance, the interest, and indeed the principal also, might be made to be payable by instalments in any manner that might be thought advisable. The amount would be specified, and by reference to the register it would be seen exactly what lands were affected. Then, these certificates would be transferable by endorsement; and if the principal was payable by instalments also, there would be receipts attached to it which would be delivered up every time it was paid. Now, if these certificates could be made to circulate readily in the money market—and it was the opinion of persons possessed of the best information both here and in Ireland that they would—dividends for the interest 1416 should be paid by the Bank of Ireland on receiving some percentage for the purpose; and at the same time there would be a security of undeniable value, being of a Parliamentary character. The security could not be affected in any way, and would pass from hand to hand like any other security, by simple endorsement, with proper evidence of the endorsement in the registry office. Now, of course, this apprehension would strike everybody in the first instance—it would be said, this looks really like disencumbering land merely for the purpose of incumbering it again. But in the first place it was not proposed that there should be a change in anything but the land; it was no judgment against the owner; he could not be taken in execution; he could not be affected in any degree by reason of this change. It might appear at first to the House not to accomplish the objects he had stated; but he was satisfied, when they examined the measure, they would find that the ends were capable of attainment. Undoubtedly you could not prevent persons from borrowing money and buying land, or from mortgaging on the security of the land that they bought. It was impossible, when you gave persons a Parliamentary title, to prevent them from incumbering the land, or making charges upon it; in fact, the great object of giving a Parliamentary title was to afford the means of making land as far as possible a mercantile commodity. Therefore he proposed to make a particular species of incumbrance for this particular species of land; and this could only be done by giving a Parliamentary title in the first place, which should be something like debentures on land, to pass from hand to hand exactly or nearly like railway debentures; for they would be perfectly secure, because they could not extend beyond one-half of what the land sold for under the commission. While the land was charged with it, in case the interest on the instalments were not paid, the owner of the debenture might go to the commissioners and request the whole to be sold to pay the debenture; and that was his security. To prevent difficulty with regard to such mortgages as might exist beyond the five years for which the commissioners were appointed, it was proposed when that period expired to give the same powers to the Court of Chancery to sell property upon these applications, as was now conferred upon the commissioners. It was also to be observed 1417 that the commissioners or the Court of Chancery would give a perfectly indefensible title to property, on its sale, to meet the debentures.

§ MR. FRENCH

said, that he entertained a high opinion of the legal knowledge and constitutional principles of the right hon. Gentleman, and in the absence of a legal officer for Ireland, could desire no; more fitting person to take charge of legal measures affecting this country; but now that one so highly gifted, and standing so high in his profession as the hon. Member for Windsor (the Solicitor General for Ireland) was in the House, he thought this branch should be left in his hands. The object of the Incumbered Estates Act was, professedly, to get rid of incumbered proprietors—to replace them by men who would have at their disposal the entire resources of the estates; who would be enabled to improve their properties, build farm-houses, and give employment to the people. For this, great sacrifices were made; but now it would appear all was to be upset by the present Bill, which was, in truth, designed to replace the present Celtic and Saxon proprietors by English purchasers, who were to be encouraged by a new incumbrance of the land to buy to double the amount of their capital. Why should the Government step in to give these purchasers assistance which they refused to the existing proprietors? The right hon. and learned Gentleman, last year, came forward to free the land from legal fetters, and to make it a marketable article at the cost of ruining the individual Irish owners. He now proposed to rebind the land, and to remove incumbrances from the persons of the proposed new English owners. It was true it was not possible to prevent the remortgaging of lands after they passed through the incumbered estates court; bat it was now proposed to hand them over directly to needy individuals who would begin the world with estates dipped, it might be, to one-half their value. Instead of bringing capital into the Irish land market, the measure would in fact keep it out, for, by permitting a moiety of the thirteen millions, of which the right hon. Gentleman spoke, to remain as a debt instead of being paid down in cash, it would prevent the immediate reinvestment of so much, which otherwise would at once take place.