§ LORD ASHLEYsaid, that, in reference to a notice which appeared upon the paper of that day, he would beg, with the permission of the House and of his hon. Friend the Member for Cockermouth and the noble Lord at the head of the Government, to make a few observations. Perhaps he might be permitted to interpose his good offices between two Gentlemen whom he had the honour of knowing, and regarding whom he could declare that the highest and most honourable motives regulated both the private and public conduct of each. The House, he was sure, would agree with him in deploring that any difference of opinion should have arisen between two Gentlemen who stood so high in public estimation as the noble Lord and the hon. Gentleman the Member for Cockermouth, who still, he was sure, notwithstanding what had occurred, entertained feelings of mutual respect and kindness for each other. He did not think the differences between them would be adjusted by the method proposed. His hon. Friend the Member for Cockermouth proposed to move for a Committee to which the whole case was to be subjected. Now, what was the character of the evidence to be laid before the Committee, and what was the business which it was to decide? A large proportion of the case must, of necessity, concern matters that took place without the walls of the House. And what did take place within the walls must consist in a great measure of a few verbal communications made in haste, and probably during debates upon other subjects, one or two angry expressions which his hon. Friend the Member for Cockermouth had used under the stinging influence of the defeat 637 of measures which he had in view, and some expressions that might have been used by his noble Friend at the head of the Government when listening to another debate, and not knowing precisely what the words might have been which he used. Now, how would it be possible for his noble Friend at this distance of time to charge his memory with the precise expressions used when a question was put to him in the course of debate? But even if the matter could be more precisely handled, he (Lord Ashley) did not think a Committee of the House was the proper tribunal before which it should be carried. He believed in his conscience that it was simply—yes, in his heart he believed that it was simply and altogether a misunderstanding by his noble and hon. Friends of the views and intentions of each other. Because he was quite convinced of this, that the hon. Member for Cockermouth was most sincere in all the measures he had proposed; that he had undertaken them on principle, and for that reason it was easy to account, in some measure, for the warmth he entertained regarding them. But his noble Friend was equally ardent upon those very subjects of improvement in the Church; and he (Lord Ashley) did not think there could be any deliberate intention on the part of his noble Friend to withstand any proposition that he thought would be conducive to the interests of the Church, or the promotion of the public welfare. He therefore thought, indeed he was convinced, that the whole affair had arisen from misconception; and be thought it would be very gratifying if they could bring the matter to a conclusion without passing any opinion whatsoever upon it, further than that the House should say it was fully satisfied as to the honourable intentions of Gentlemen who had sat so long a time within its walls, and who took so honourable and distinguished a part in its proceedings as the hon. Gentleman the Member for Cockermouth, and his noble Friend at the head of the Government. He thought the House would be satisfied and the public service advantaged, if, without doing more than expressing regret that any difference should have taken place between parties of such high respect and character, the House should at once pass to the business on the paper. He trusted the House would excuse him for making such a proposition, but he did it from a desire to consult the real advantage of the public, and, in a great measure, because he enter- 638 tained the very deepest respect for both the Gentlemen concerned. And he conscientiously believed that nothing but a misunderstanding could have led to such an issue. He moved that the Order of the Day be now read.
§ MR. HORSMAN saidSir, if I understand aright, the House seems unanimously to accede to what is proposed by the noble Lord the Member for Bath. And I must hold it to have decided that it is not desirable to go into the inquiry for which I came down to move. If that be so, I bow at once to the declared wish of the House; but I must at the same time ask it to indulge mo for a few moments of explanation before it passes to the Orders of the Day. The question now remains in this state—that I brought charges against the noble Lord at the head of the Government and the right hon. Gentleman the Home Secretary, which I am not permitted to prove, or called on to retract. Now, I must say, if the matter is to be left in this state, it ends in a manner not altogether just to the noble Lord whom I have accused; and, not ending in justice to him, it would not end satisfactorily to my own feelings. I therefore think that, as there are certain passages in the letter alluded to which have been understood to convey something move than I intended, I ought to state what is the interpretation I should have wished to be put upon them—how far I meant to go in my charge against the noble Lord—and how far I am now prepared to withdraw the imputation which was supposed to rest on his personal honour. I did not intend to make, not did I make, any allegation whatever as to the noble Lord's motives. I did not intend that any such construction should be put on my letter; and perhaps it would be more satisfactory to show that what I am about to say is not mere formality and compliment, if I were to tell the House and the noble Lord what I really did mean and what I felt. I did not intend to say that the noble Lord had wilfully and designedly done that which he knew to be dishonourable. I believed the real fact to be that he was annoyed and irritated at my persevering in my Motions upon the Church; and that he rather courted the opportunity of showing bow he could with impunity dispense with the courtesies of Parliamentary usage in the case of a Member who had not a party at his back; and that he incautiously indulged 639 this feeling to such an extent that he very seriously compromised himself, and enabled me to establish such a case against him that I could appeal without fear to the verdict of any Committee which the House might think fit to appoint. That, Sir, was my belief. If I were asked if I thought the noble Lord intended deliberately to deceive me, I say, fairly, there was no such accusation conveyed in the word of my letter. And I may add, that, so far from thinking that there was deliberation, I rather thought the noble Lord acted too unreflectingly. So far from having the motive to deceive, I believed that very possibly his disposition was only to annoy; but whatever the motive, the result was the same; and the facts which I was enabled to substantiate against the noble Lord were the same. I do admit, for I don't spare myself on this occasion, that, as my noble Friend the Member for Bath has hinted, I may, in the course of our discussions, have given the noble Lord some provocation; for I had felt, that on some of these questions I had been met by certain Members of the Government with personalities and imputations of motives of which the noble Lord alone knew the whole injustice; and I thought he did not give me the benefit of his testimony as in honour he was bound to do on those occasions. I felt this, and to a certain extent no doubt resented it. However, that is long past: and I now assure the noble Lord that so far as I am concerned, there shall not be a revival of that personal warfare between us. In future discussions it shall be my endeavour to avoid anything which, having a merely personal bearing, may give rise to unpleasantness with the noble Lord. And I hope I may ask and may receive on his side that courtesy which will show that he gives mo that credit, in my advocacy of public questions, for being actuated by public motives only which everything that has ever passed between us entitles me to demand. I can only now say further, Sir, that I cheerfully withdraw any imputation upon the personal honour of the noble Lord, and as a matter of course, of the right hon. Baronet also; and I have, at the same time, to express to this House my regret for the trouble which this explanation has occasioned.
§ LORD J. RUSSELLSir, I certainly received the impression from the letter which was read to the House the other day, that the hon. Gentleman the Member 640 for Cockermouth did suppose that I intended to deceive him with respect to a measure that was before the House; and, being quite unconscious of any such intention, I certainly could not but feel at the time that it was a very unjust imputation. But I understand, from what has just been said by the hon. Member, not only that he does not now make that charge, but that that was not a charge he intended to make in what he wrote in his letter. Nothing can be more satisfactory to my feelings on that subject. With regard to any other matter, all I can say is this—the hon. Member hoped I would only attribute to public motives his pressing forward certain questions; and I am quite ready to do him justice in that respect, and believe that in pressing forward those questions, the hon. Member had no object in view but the general benefit of the public, and the improvement of the Church. But I am in a somewhat different position from the hon. Member, who must feel, that while it was competent to him to press upon the House, to the full extent, his views and impressions upon a subject, it occurred to myself, as a Minister of the Crown, if he undertook any measure, that he had not only to show to the House that the measure was in itself just, but that he must endeavour to communicate to others such an impression that it was just that he might succeed in carrying it. I believe this difference in our positions has been really the main cause of the misunderstanding. The hon. Member thought that a measure could be carried easily, which I considered could not he carried without asking the opinion and requiring the deliberation of various persons connected with the matter. I am very happy to find that the hon. Gentleman says that hereafter he will be ready to make every allowance of that kind which I could require; and, for my part, I can assure the hon. Member that I shall be ready to enter into any discussion that may come on, giving him full credit for zeal for the benefit of the Church, and for the purity of his motives.
§ SIR G. GREYSir, I am very happy to hear the terms in which the hon. Gentleman the Member for Cockermouth has retracted his charges; and, for my own part, I must say, that I regret that, feeling the injustice of the imputations conveyed in his letter against my noble Friend and myself, I expressed myself in terms of undue warmth. I can assure the hon. Gentleman, that in the discussion of these 641 questions to which he specially directs his attention, it will be my earnest desire to comply for the future with the hope which he has expressed. Subject dropped.