HC Deb 22 May 1849 vol 105 cc843-8

was proceeding, pursuant to notice, to move the adjournment of the House over this day, when


rose and begged to ask Mr. Speaker what was the rule of the House relative to notices of Motion, and whether there was anything in the noble Marquess's Motion to take it out of its turn?


said, that it had always been the practice of the House to entertain Motions for the adjournment of the House before entering into the ordinary Motions of the day.


said, that in submitting to the House the Motion of which he had given notice, he should need but few words to explain its object. Gentleman who did not usually attend race courses were yet aware that to-morrow was "The Derby Day." He submitted his I Motion for adjournment with full confidence, because it had been the custom of that House from time immemorial. Why, it had been carried in the previous year by a majority of thirteen, a majority in which the Prime Minister voted. He regretted that he did not then see the noble Lord in his place. The noble Lord had supported the Motion of last year on the ground that the Derby was a grand national fête, and he (the Marquess of Granby) now repeated it on similar grounds. Epsom Downs were open to all ranks, rich and poor, where they met once a year—he wished they did so much oftener—for a common purpose, namely, to enjoy the fresh air, and participate in a great national sport. Perhaps he might add, that although the House had usually two holidays in the Session, they had this year, in consequence of Her Majesty's birthday falling on Saturday, been deprived of one. He would wish to submit to hon. Members who were inclined to oppose the Motion, that they thereby prevented, not only themselves from attending, but those who were not able to act otherwise than as the House decided—namely, its officers.

On the question being put.


said, the question was one on which the House should rather express its own opinion than call for one on the part of the Government. He was certainly not prepared to agree to the Motion on the part of Her Majesty's Government, unless the general opinion of the House appeared to be in favour of it. When his hon. Friend the Member for Staffordshire the other day suggested an adjournment over Ascension Day, he (Sir G. Grey) told his hon. Friend in private that he did not think there were sufficient grounds for doing so, and he should feel bound to make the same answer now. If the hon. Gentlemen who had Motions for Wednesday were not anxious to press their Motions forward on that day, he did not think there was any necessity of imposing on Mr. Speaker the duty of attending; but if those hon. Gentlemen wished to bring on their business, the House would not be discharging its duty if they did not meet.


said, he was determined to take the opinion of the House on this question. He knew no reason why the Derby should take precedence of public business, and as he had a very important Bill standing for to-morrow, the Copyhold Enfranchisement Bill, he was determined, if possible, to persevere with it.


said, he felt it to be his duty to support the hon. and learned Member for Cockermouth in opposition to this Motion. He found that there were six Bills on the Votes for tomorrow, and he thought it would not be creditable to the House to adjourn with so much public business before them. He denied that it was an immemorial custom, or one of more than a few years' standing, to adjourn over the Derby day.


suggested to the hon. and learned Member for Cockermouth that it would be only wasting the time of the House to press his opposition to a division. The hon. and learned Member was mistaken if he supposed there would be a House, as the majority of Members opposite, however they might vote on this question, would go to the Derby, and the Members on that (the Opposition) side would, unquestionably, be all there. The only object which the hon. and learned Gentleman could attain by his opposition would, therefore, be to bring down Mr. Speaker at twelve o'clock, and oblige him to wait until four o'clock to declare that there was no House.


said, it was not his intention to oppose the Motion, provided he got a favourable answer to a question which he wished to ask the noble Lord at the head of the Government. Although "Chatterer" was a great favourite on the turf, he was not a favourite in that House. He was admitted to be a horse of great speed, and exceedingly long-winded. It was quite clear that the hon. and learned Member for Cockermouth had not made up a book, and he was deeply sorry that the hon. and learned Member had not done so; because Chatterer was an Irish horse, and he would be happy to see his hon. and learned Friend increase his circulating medium by betting on that horse. He wished to know from the noble Lord whether Her Majesty's Ministers intended going to the Derby, as in that case he should not oppose the Motion, or whether they were content with having won a Derby on their own account elsewhere, the night before? He was astonished that the House should be so ready to devote an entire day to horse-racing, and yet that they should have shown such impatience a short while ago, when he had put a question involving the saving of the lives of his fellow countrymen. The House always attached more importance to such questions as that of transporting a few pieces of ordnance to Sicily than to the sufferings of the Irish people.

Motion made, and Question put, "That this House will, at the rising of the House this day, adjourn till Thursday next."

The House divided:—Ayes, 138; Noes, 119: Majority, 19.

List of the AYES.
Adderley, C. B. Chichester, Lord J. L.
Anson, Visct. Christopher, R. A.
Anstey, T. C. Christy, S.
Arkwright, G. Clements, hon. C. S.
Arundel and Surrey, Earl of Clive, hon. R. H.
Clive, H. B.
Bailey, J. Cochrane, A. D. R. W. B.
Baillie, H. J. Conolly, T.
Bankes, G. Copeland, Ald.
Barrington, Visct. Corbally, M. E.
Bass, M. T. Cubitt, W.
Bateson, T. Dalrymple, Capt.
Beckett, W. Dick, Q.
Bennet, P. Disraeli, B.
Beresford, W. Drumlanrig, Visct.
Berkeley, hon. G. F. Duckworth, Sir J. T. B.
Blackall, S. W. Duncombe, hon. A.
Blair, S. Dundas, G.
Bourke, R. S. Dunne, F. P.
Bremridge, R. Du Pre, C. G.
Brisco, M. Estcourt, J. B. B.
Brooke, Lord Farrer, J.
Brooke Sir A. B. Filmer, Sir E.
Buck, L. W. Fitzroy, hon. H.
Buller, Sir J. Y. Foley, J. H. H.
Caulfeild, J. M. Forester, hon. G. C. W.
Chaplin, W. J. Fox, S. W. L.
Charteris, hon. F. Freestun, Col.
Frewen, C. H. O'Brien, Sir L.
Fuller, A. E. O'Connell, J.
Galway, Visct. O'Connell, M.
Gaskell, J. M. O'Connor, F.
Goddard, A. L. O'Flaherty, A.
Godson, R. Oswald, A.
Gooch, E. S. Packe, C. W.
Gore, W. R. O. Paget, Lord G.
Grogan, E. Pakington, Sir J.
Grosvenor, Lord R. Palmer, R.
Gwyn, H. Pinney, W.
Halford, Sir H. Powlett, Lord W.
Hallyburton, Lord J. F. Renton, J. C.
Hamilton, J. H. Repton, G. W. J.
Hamilton, Lord C. Reynolds, J.
Henley, J. W. Richards, R.
Herbert, H. A. Sandars, J.
Herbert, rt. hon. S. Seymour, Sir H.
Herries, rt. hon. J. C. Seymour, Lord
Hildyard, T. B. T. Sidney, Ald.
Hope, Sir J. Slayney, R. A.
Hornby, J. Smyth, Sir H.
Houldsworth, T. Somers, J. P.
Hughes, W. B. Sotheron, T. H. S.
Jocelyn, Visct. Stafford, A.
Jolliffe, Sir W. G. H. Stanton, W. H.
Kerrison, Sir E. Stuart, J.
Lascelles, hon. E. Sturt, H. G.
Lascelles, hon. W. S. Tancred, H. W.
Lemon, Sir C. Taylor, T. E.
Lewisham, Visct. Trollope, Sir J.
Lindsay, hon. Col. Verner, Sir W.
Loch, J. Villiers, Visct.
Lopes, Sir R. Villiers, hon. F. W. C.
Lygon, hon. Gen. Vyse, R. H. R. H.
Manners, Lord C. S. Walpole, S. H.
Matheson, Col. Willoughby, Sir H.
Meux, Sir H. Wodehouse, E.
Miles, P. W. S. Worcester, Marq. of
Miles, W. Wyvill, M.
Milner, W. M. E. TELLERS.
Morgan, O. Granby, Marq. of
Mundy, W. Newdegate, C. N.
List of the NOES.
Adair, H. E. Elliot, hon. J. E.
Adair, R. A. S. Evans, Sir De L.
Alcock, T. Ewart, W.
Anderson, A. Fagan, W.
Baines, M. T. Fergus, J.
Berkeley, C. L. G. Forster, M.
Birch, Sir T. B. Fox, W. J.
Bouverie, hon. E. P. French, F.
Bright, J. Gibson, rt. hon. T. M.
Brotherton, J. Glyn, G. C.
Brown, W. Grace, O. D. J.
Busfeild, W. Graham, rt. hon. Sir J.
Buxton, Sir E. N. Granger, T. C.
Cardwell, E. Greenall, G.
Cavendish, hon. G. H. Greene, T.
Childers, J. W. Grenfell, C. P.
Clerk, rt. hon. Sir G. Grey, rt. hon. Sir G.
Clifford, H. M. Haggitt, F. R.
Cobden, R. Hardcastle, J. A.
Colebrooke, Sir T. E. Harris, R.
Colvile, C. R. Hastie, A.
Crowder, R. B. Hastie, A.
Denison, E. Heald, J.
D'Eyncourt, rt. hon. C. T. Heywood, J.
Douglas, Sir C. E. Hill, Lord M.
Drummond, H. Horsman, E.
Duncan, Visct. Howard, Lord E.
Duncan, G. Howard, hon. C. W. G.
Humphery, Ald. Portal, M.
Jervis, Sir J. Pugh, D.
Kershaw, J. Ricardo, O.
King, hon. P. J. L. Russell, Lord J.
Labouchere, rt. hon. H. Russell, F. C. H.
Lacy, H. C. Salwey, Col.
Langston, J. H. Scholefield, W.
Lewis, rt. hon. Sir T. F. Scrope, G. P.
Lincoln, Earl of Simeon, J.
Lushington, C. Smith, rt. hon. R. V.
Mackinnon, W. A. Smith, J. B.
Macnaghten, Sir E. Somerville, rt. hon. Sir W.
M'Gregor, J. Stansfleld, W. R. C.
Maitland, T. Stuart, Lord D.
Mangles, R. D. Thicknesse, R. A.
Matheson, A. Thompson, Col.
Maule, rt. hon. F. Thompson, G.
Melgund, Visct. Thornely, T.
Mitchell, T. A. Tufnell, H.
Molesworth, Sir W. Tynte, Col. C. J. K.
Monsell, W. Vane, Lord H.
Morris, D. Verney, Sir H.
Mowatt, F. Villiers, hon. C.
Mullings, J. R. Wawn, J. T.
Nugent, Lord Westhead, J. P.
Ord, W. Willcox, B. M.
Patten, J. W. Williams, J.
Pechell, Capt. Wilson, M.
Pendarves, E. W. W. Wrightson, W. B.
Philips, Sir G. R. Young, Sir J.
Pilkington, J. TELLERS.
Plowden, W. H. C. Aglionby, H. A.
Plumptre, J. P. Crawford, W. S.

expressed a hope that the carrying of the Motion would not have the effect of preventing the private Committees from sitting on the following day, because it would be a great hardship and inconvenience to those who were in attendance upon the Committees if they should have to incur additional expense in consequence of all business being suspended upon the Derby day. He thought it extremely desirable that the Committee on Private Bills should at all events be afforded an opportunity of sitting on the following day, if they should feel so inclined, and he would propose a Motion to that effect.


would not oppose the Motion, although he was very much inclined to ask where the difference lay between the transaction of private and public business upon the Derby day. He wished hon. Gentlemen opposite joy of the previous Motion which had been carried, but he would have been much better pleased at their triumph if they had allowed him to work upon the following day, and if they had gone themselves to the Derby. He hoped a Motion would be submitted that on every Derby day in every future year, the House should be adjourned. Hon. Gentlemen would then know what they were doing. For his own part, after the decision to which the House had just arrived, he never would venture, in any subsequent year, to oppose the Derby Motion. In conclusion, he had only to tell the hon. and learned Member for Youghal, that time was sometimes much less wasted in dividing than in speaking.


did not think that he was bound to answer the question of the hon. Member for Cockermouth further than to state that he had voted against the adjournment of the House upon the Derby day. As that adjournment, however, had been carried, he thought now that the private Committees should sit in order to save the expenses of private parties.

Leave to all Committees to sit to-morrow, notwithstanding the adjournment of the House.