HC Deb 19 March 1849 vol 103 cc1025-6

rose to move the Votes in Excess for 1847–8.


meant to place his protest on the Votes of the House against the system of votes in excess, and he hoped, therefore, these votes would not be brought forward at that time. He wanted to express his objection to the system, and to censure as strongly as possible what he conceived to be the misapplication of public money. It appeared to be of no avail to submit reduced estimates to the House if the system of excess votes were tolerated. In the very first vote—the arming the artisans of the dockyards—the vote was for 20,000l., but the excess was 52,000l.; making the sum of 72,000l. for one year. This was the system he wanted to protest against, and he would make a Motion on the subject next Friday if the Votes were postponed.


said, the noble Lord had promised to inform the House when the Navy Estimates should come on for discussion. He called upon the House not to approach the consideration of so important a subject at twelve o'clock at night, but to defer it till another day, when they might attack it like giants refreshed.


had certainly understood, when the vote was taken on account, that a distinct pledge was given that a full opportunity would be afforded of discussing the vote, and he thought such a discussion at twelve o'clock at night was too late.


The only promise given was, that no advantage should be taken. His hon. Friend the Secretary to the Admiralty had entered fully on the subject on going into supply, and the hon. Member had commented very strongly on this very vote on that occasion, and he certainly had understood that he had entirely done with the subject.


had not so understood it. The hon. Secretary had certainly gone at some length into the subject, but he had understood that he meant to discuss it fully when the vote itself should come before them.


had certainly felt himself entitled, after the full discussion which had taken place, to move for the remainder of the vote.


wished to set himself right with respect to a statement he had made on the last day on which the Navy Estimates were under discussion. He had received a letter that day from Mr. Green—of the firm of Wig-ram and Green—in which he stated that he (Mr. Sidney Herbert) was wrong in attributing to any person the lines of his—Mr. Green's—vessels. He said he had not borrowed the lines of the Inconstant, nor had he ever seen the lines of that vessel. He (Mr. Sidney Herbert) made his original statement with the conviction that it was perfectly true. He made it on the authority of a naval officer of high distinction, who enjoyed the friendship of Admiral Hayes. He would take the opportunity, in making that statement, to say that Mr. Green deserved great credit for constructing vessels of such symmetry that they might be taken for men-of-war.

It was then agreed that the discussion on the question should be postponed, and a vote on account of naval excess was taken.

The Chairman reported progress. House resumed.