HC Deb 15 March 1849 vol 103 cc755-8
VISCOUNT DRUMLANRIG

begged to move— That there be laid before this House, a Return of the expense the Country has incurred from printing and publishing and collecting Returns moved for by the hon. Member for Montrose, from February 1818, to February 1849. The noble Lord said, he disclaimed any personal feeling, or any desire to cast any reflections upon the hon. Member for Montrose, by bringing forward this Motion. He was quite prepared to withdraw his Motion, and substitute in its stead the Amendment of which the hon. Gentleman (Mr. Hume) had given notice.

MR. HUME

said, that he assured the House there was nothing that he did within its walls that he was unwilling to be made public. He regretted that the noble Viscount had selected the papers moved for by him instead of by every other hon. Member. The noble Viscount fancied that he had found out something new; but he had to inform him that that was the third time this question had been mooted. He feared, however, he was one of those who "did nothing themselves, and who found fault with those who did." He did not deny that he had taken an active part in moving for returns; but if the noble Viscount would mention any returns which he had not acted upon, or which had not been of public service, then he would take all the blame that should attach to him for having moved for useless returns. But when many had moved for returns of which, and of the use to be made of them, they knew nothing, he apprehended that they were to blame, and that he (Mr. Hume) was blameless. From a paper moved for by him, showing the number of papers moved for by hon. Members, it appeared that, in the list from 1 to 60, his name did not appear, neither did it from 50 to 69; and if the noble Viscount would examine the lists, he would find that he (Mr. Hume) had moved for a variety of papers which he conceived most important; and if the noble Viscount would move the appointment of a Committee on the subject, and would state before it the ground on which he made his Motion, he (Mr. Hume) should be prepared to show that all the papers he had moved for were of the utmost public importance—moved for mainly to show how the money of the nation was expended; and he did not, therefore, wonder at the noble Viscount and others objecting to such returns, because, perhaps, they were interested in its reckless expenditure. He hoped the House would agree to his Amendment, and he expressed his gratitude to the noble Viscount for showing the public the pains which he (Mr. Hume) took to instruct them on matters of the utmost importance to them, and the real object of which returns were not all times clearly understood. Four j-ears ago he moved for a number of returns in connexion with tidal harbours, which took two years to prepare, and without which the Commission appointed on the subject would not have been so effective as it had been. He had, also, he perceived by the return referred to, moved for a return of pensions, which had cost 1l. 5s. preparing, and surely it was not a great grievance, especially considering that it contained the names of many of the noble Viscount's Friends. Many of the returns he had moved for published exposures of the mismanagement of public departments, and showed how the expenditure of the public money could be economised. He did not object to the words of the Motion, but to the spirit in which it was made. Indeed, he should be glad to see such a return published every year. He found, by the paper to which he had already alluded, that the cost of printing the evidence taken before the Election Committees had amounted to from 2,000l to 3,000l., which was only of interest to a small number of persons. Then, again, large blue books, too voluminous for any one to peruse had been printed on such subjects as the slave trade, containing the names of slaves, &c., which could not be interesting to any one. if the noble Viscount had made his Motion a general one, instead of a personal one, he would have been happy to second it.

SIR G. GREY

hoped the House would not accede to the Motion; for, notwithstanding the disclaimer of the noble Viscount, the Motion did imply a reflection on the hon. Member for Montrose, which in his case was most unmerited. He could not admit that any hon. Gentleman was responsible for the expense incurred in printing returns; because it was not in the power of any individual to order returns to be made. No returns could be made except by order of the House, or by address to the Crown; and it was the duty of every hon. Member, if he thought any Member moved for a return which ought not to be made, to oppose its production. The House was the best judge whether any returns moved for were of sufficient importance or not to be ordered, and the House alone, therefore, was responsible for the expense. He hoped, therefore, the noble Viscount would not press his Motion.

MR. HERRIES

entirely concurred in the opinion of the right hon. Gentleman the Home Secretary, and also hoped the Motion would be withdrawn. The returns moved for by the hon. Member for Montrose had often been of great service to the country, and had never been required in any spirit of personal or party animosity.

VISCOUNT DRUMLANRIG

disclaimed all feeling of hostility towards the hon. Member for Montrose, in introducing the Motion on the Paper, and he was quite ready to accept the hon. Member's Amendment.

Motion, by leave, withdrawn.