HC Deb 13 March 1849 vol 103 cc630-3

Order for Second Reading read; Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Bill be no I read a second time."


said, that he still entertained the same objections to this measure which he had expressed on a former occasion. He had hoped that the interval which elapsed since its first reading would have brought the promoters to their senses. He ought more properly to have spoken in the singular, and said the "promoter," for an attorney was the only individual who seemed most interested in its fate. It was a Bill of costs, which would impose heavy burdens on the Irish metropolis; and he appealed in sober seriousness to his hon. Colleague (Mr. Grogan), and asked him how he could reconcile it to his feelings, as one of the representatives of the city of Dublin, to force on his constituents so extravagant and unconstitutional a measure? If he (Mr. Reynolds) possessed the concentrated eloquence of both sides of the House, it would be impossible for him adequately to describe its monstrosity, or to designate its true character. It would abolish municipal rights, and transfer the taxing powers of a responsible corporation to a number of ex officio commissioners. He thought that when such a measure was supported by his hon. Colleague—who, on this occasion, appeared to be an instrument in the hands of a speculating attorney—it was the duty of the right hon. Baronet the Secretary for Ireland to lead the opposition to it; but as that course had not been pursued by any of Her Majesty's Ministers, he (Mr. Reynolds) felt justified in coming forward and moving, that the Bill be read a second time that day six months.

Amendment proposed, to leave out the word "now," and at the end of the Question to add the words "upon this day six months."


said, that two or three days ago, he had received a letter to the effect that this matter had been arranged, that the three Dublin Bills which now stood for second readings would be withdrawn, and that the Government would introduce a general measure which would satisfy the wishes of all parties. He wished to ask the right hon. Baronet the Secretary for Ireland whether this information were correct?


regretted that he was unable to give so satisfactory an answer to the question as he could desire. He could assure the House that Her Majesty's Ministers were exceedingly anxious that the disagreement between the parties in Dublin relative to the three Bills in question should be settled, and that they should come to some sort of compromise with each other. He had been in hopes the day before that he should be able now to make an announcement that the disputes were ended—but he was sorry to say that one of the parties was not disposed to withdraw their Bill. At the same time, he was not without hopes even still that there was a possibility of an amicable conclusion being arrived at on the subject.

SIR J. Y. BULLER moved that the Bill be postponed for three weeks, in order to afford time to the Government to introduce a measure which would bring matters to a settlement.


observed that he would not oppose this proposition, provided the Government would regulate differences by the introduction of a Bill of their own, and then allow the whole of the measures to be transferred to a Committee for full consideration.


could not give any assurance that such a suggestion as this would be adopted by Her Majesty's Ministers.


thought the proposal of his hon. Friend the Member for Devonshire was a very excellent one—that the three Dublin Bills should, under the circumstances, be postponed for three weeks.


denied that there was any job or injustice contemplated by the Bill, the best proof of which was, that all he asked the House to do was, to refer the Bill to a Committee to inquire into its merits, and if, then, it were found to contain audacious or tyrannical clauses, he, for one, should be quite ready to abandon them—whereas the opponents of the measure shrank from the Committee.


opposed the second reading of the measure, and stated that the citizens of Dublin were almost unanimously averse to its provisions. He denounced the Bill as being monstrous and impolitic, and declared that it was the scheme of a speculating solicitor to obtain costs.


believed that the House had become heartily sick of this subject. These Bills had been postponed in order that Government might ascertain whether such alterations could be introduced in them as to enable it to support them. He apprehended that the Government had no great favour for cither of the Bills. An influential meeting had recently taken place in Dublin, from which it appeared that the Irish Government, the Lord Mayor, &c., and the Chamber of Commerce, of Dublin, were in favour of the withdrawal of the Bills, in order that the subject might be undertaken by the Government. If the Government were disposed to take up this subject—and he thought that they ought to do so, as the subject matter of the Bill was one which ought to be dealt with by the Government, and not by private individuals—he considered that the course proposed by the hon. Baronet (Sir J. Y. Buller) was a prudent one. He trusted that the Government were in earnest in this matter, and that they would take themselves take the initiative.


repeated what he had said before, that the Government were perfectly in earnest in desiring to bring the vexata quœstio to a satisfactory termination, and that he was not without hopes that an amicable settlement was near at hand.


said, that the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Wiltshire, who supported the present Bill, was an Irish absentee landlord—that no portion of the burden of taxation in Dublin fell upon his shoulders—and that he did nothing in the country but most scrupulously receive his rents. The question before the House was, whether they would uphold Mr. Jackson, the attorney, who was the solitary promoter of the measure, or the interests of the citizens of Dublin.


stated, that a better landlord than the right hon. Member for Wiltshire did not exist.


said, that if a postponement of the second reading for a fortnight were assented to, he would not put the House to the trouble of proceeding to a division.


had no objection to substitute a fortnight for three weeks, if the right hon. the Secretary for Ireland could amicably arrange and bring in his Bill in that space of time.


thought that the postponement of the second reading-would most likely effect all that was desired.

Question proposed, "That the word 'now' stand part of the Question." Amendment and Motion, by leave, withdrawn. Motion made, and Question put, "That the Bill be read a Second Time upon Tuesday 27th March."

The House divided:—Ayes 110; Noes 100: Majority 10.

List of the AYES.
Adair, R. A. S. Kildare, Marq. of
Aglionby, H. A. Labouchere, rt. hon. H.
Arundel and Surrey, Earl of Locke, J.
Lygon, hon. Gen.
Bellew, R. M. Mackinnon, W. A.
Berkeley, C. L. G. M'Gregor, J.
Blakemore, R. Meagher, T.
Bouverie, hon. E. P. Maitland, T.
Bramston, T. W. Matheson, Col.
Bright, J. Maule, rt. hon. F.
Brotherton, J. Milnes, R. M.
Brown, W. Monsell, W.
Buller, Sir J. Y. Morgan, H. K. G.
Buxton, Sir E. N. Morris, D.
Callaghan, D. Mostyn, hon. E. M. L.
Carew, W. H. P. Napier, J.
Charteris, hon. F. Norreys, Sir D. J.
Clay, Sir W. Nugent, Lord
Clerk, rt. hon. Sir G. O'Brien, T.
Clive, hon. R. H. O'Connor, F.
Cobden, R. Osborne, R.
Cocks, T. S. Pakington, Sir J.
Douglas, Sir C. E. Palmer, R.
Drumlanrig, Visc. Palmer, R.
Duckworth, Sir J. T. B. Patten, J. W.
Duncan, G. Pilkington, J.
Ellice, rt. hon. E. Power, N.
Ewart, W. Pugh, D.
Fagan, W. Ricardo, O.
Fordyce, A. D. Russell, Lord J.
Forster, M. Salwey, Col.
Fortescue, C. Scholefield, W.
Fox, W. J. Scrope, G. P.
Gibson, rt. hon. T. M. Scully, F.
Glyn, G. C. Sidney, Ald.
Goulburn, rt. hon. H. Smith, J. A.
Grenfell, C. P. Smith, J. B.
Grosvenor, Earl Somerville, rt. hon. Sir W.
Hale, R. B. Sotheron, T. H. S.
Hardcastle, J. A. Talbot, J. H.
Harris, R. Tennent, R. J.
Hastie, A. Thicknesse, R. A.
Hastie, A. Thompson, Col.
Hawes, B. Thompson, G.
Herbert, rt. hon. S. Thornely, T.
Heyworth, L. Walmsley, Sir J.
Hill, L. M. Wawn, J. T.
Hogg, Sir J. W. West, F.
Hope, Sir J. Willams, B. M.
Hotham, Lord Williams, J.
Howard, Lord E. Wilson, M.
Hume, J. Wrightson, W.
Humphery, Ald. Wyvill, M.
Jackson, W. Young, Sir J.
Jervis, Sir T. TELLERS.
Keating, R. Reynolds, J.
Kershaw, J. O'Connell, J.
List of the NOES.
Adderley, C. B. Heneage, G. H. W.
Alexander, N. Henley, J. W.
Archdall, Capt. M. Herbert, H. A.
Bagge, W. Herries, rt. hon. J. C.
Bankes, G. Hildyard, R. C.
Baring, hon. F. Hill, Lord E.
Barrington, Visct. Hodgson, W. N.
Bennet, P. Hornby, J.
Beresford, W. Hughes, W. B.
Blackall, S. W. Jones, Capt.
Blair, S. Knight, F. W.
Boldero, H. G. Lennox, Lord H. G.
Bourke, R. S. Leslie, C. P.
Boyd, J. Lindsay, hon. Col
Bremridge, R. Lockhart, W.
Brooke, Lord Long, W.
Brooke, Sir A. B. Manners, Lord C. S.
Buck, L. W. March, Earl of
Cholmeley, Sir M. Maunsell, T. P.
Christopher, R. A. Miles, P. W. S.
Clive, H. B. Miles, W.
Cobbold, J. C. Milner, W. M. E.
Codrington, Sir W. Molesworth, Sir W.
Cole, hon. H A. Mullings, J. R.
Coles, H. B. Newport, Visct.
Cotton, hon. W. H. S. O'Brien, Sir L.
Cubitt, W. O'Connell, M. J.
Davies, D. A. S. Reid, Col.
Disraeli, B. Renton, J. C.
Duncombe, hon. A. Rufford, F.
Duncombe, hon. O. Sandars, G.
Duncuft, J. Seymer, H. K.
Dundas, G. Smyth, Sir H.
Du Pre, C. G. Smyth, J. G.
Edwards, H. Spooner, R.
Farrer, J. Stafford, A.
Floyer, J. Stanley, E.
Forbes, W. Stuart, J.
Forester, hon. G. C. W. Sullivan, M.
French, F. Taylor, T. E.
Frewen, C. H Trollope, Sir J.
Fuller, A. E. Tyrell, Sir J. T.
Gaskell, J. M. Urquhart, D.
Gore, W. R. O. Vesey, hon. T.
Granby, Marq. of Waddington, H. S.
Greenall, G. Wall, C. B.
Gwyn, H. Walsh, Sir J. B.
Hall, Col. Wodehouse, E.
Hamilton, G. A.
Hamilton, J. H. TELLERS.
Hayes, Sir E. Grogan, E.
Heald, J. Mackenzie, W. F.

Second reading deferred till Tuesday March 27th.

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