DUBLIN CONSOLIDATION IMPROVEMENT WATERWORKS AND SEWERS BILL. (Hansard, 27 February 1849)

§ MR. REYNOLDS
, before the adjourned debate on this Bill was resumed, begged to state, that he had received petitions from the Lord Mayor, aldermen, and burgesses of the city of Dublin; from the Grand Canal Company, under their seal; from burgesses and ratepayers of the city, 4,000 in number; from the High Sheriff of the city, and from the president and vice-president and members of the Chamber of Commerce, against it. He believed he could not take any part in the debate, as it had been adjourned upon his own Motion, that the Bill should be read a second time that day six months. He however, should, on the part of his constituency, protest against the second reading.

§ MR. SPEAKER
said, that the hon. Gentleman undoubtedly could not take part again in the debate upon the question then before the House. But a clause had been referred to him for consideration. He had examined it, and he thought it was one which should be struck out by the Committee.

§ MR. J. O'CONNELL
supported the Amendment, and begged the House to give due weight to what he believed to be the almost unanimous opinion of the citizens of Dublin.

The EARL of LINCOLN
said, that he understood the chief reason for the adjournment of the debate upon the Bill was in order that the right hon. Gentleman the Secretary for Ireland (Sir W. Somerville) might have time to communicate with the Lord Lieutenant, and ascertain his opinion upon the measure. He thought that the rules of the House ought to be relaxed, and the right hon. Gentleman be allowed to state the result of the communication.

§ MR. SPEAKER
said, that that could be best done by the withdrawal of the Motion, and the substitution of another.

§ MR. REYNOLDS
declined to withdraw his Motion.

The EARL of LINCOLN
pressed the Secretary for Ireland to state his reasons for allowing a private Bill such as the present one to be thrown out upon the second reading.

§ SIR W. SOMERVILLE
said, he had been precluded by the rules of the House from stating his reasons. The division had come upon him by surprise. He was quite ready to state his reasons, but was not permitted. He would now say, that the Government was prepared to propose certain measures connected with the objects of the Bill before the House. One was with reference to a concentrated board for purposes of general taxation for the city of Dublin, and to vest in the corporation of the city the powers at present vested in several Government offices. The Lord Lieutenant was in favour of such a course; but there did not appear to be—at least at present—any chance of the several parties concerned agreeing to a general plan. There were two other Bills, the Dublin Corporation Waterworks Bill, and the Dublin improvement Bill, fixed for Friday next, when some of the questions in debate would come before the House; but he had made up his mind to oppose the present Bill, because he found it was objected to by all parties.

§ MR. SIDNEY HERBERT
said, it was a mistake to suppose the Bill was opposed by all parties. He proposed that the second reading should be adjourned for a fortnight. The other Bills could be postponed to the same day, and all could then be considered together.

§ MR. REYNOLDS
said, the question was at an end. His Amendment had been carried.

§ MR. SIDNEY HERBERT
begged the hon. Member's pardon. They had only decided on striking out the word "now;" the future day on which the Bill was to be read a second time had not yet been decided. He moved as an Amendment that the Bill be read a second time that day fortnight.

§ MR. REYNOLDS
appealed to the right hon. Gentleman in the Chair. He had always been under the impression that a Motion such as had just been carried, postponed the reading of a Bill for six months.

§ MR. SPEAKER
explained that the 1316 words of the Amendment were, "to strike out the word 'now,' for the purpose of adding 'this day six months.' "The division had been taken on the omission of the word "now." The day to be substituted was a question still to be decided.

§ MR. BERNAL OSBORNE
recommended Mr. Reynolds to agree to the postponement for a fortnight. He had himself voted against the Bill, knowing nothing about it, but merely giving, as it were, a vote of confidence to his hon. Friend the Member for Dublin.

§ MR. REYNOLDS
said, the more he considered the matter, the more he was determined to persevere in his opposition to the Bill. It was a Bill concocted by a speculating attorney for the mere purpose of making up a bill of costs against his (Mr. Reynolds') constituents. And this attorney was helped by a London Parliamentary agent. Would the House, he asked, endure such a thing? Would it tolerate such a measure being thrust upon London, Liverpool, Manchester, or Birmingham? No, they would not; and yet, because the measure referred to a place at the other side of the Channel, they were asked to enable a speculating attorney to bring in a Bill which would saddle the citizens with costs to the amount of at least 10,000l. The right hon. Baronet the Member for Tamworth had said, that he was for extending all the municipal privileges enjoyed in England to Ireland. Yet the House of Commons was asked to hand over to an irresponsible board the complete command of 250,000l. a year, in the shape of local taxation inflicted upon the citizens of Dublin, and over the expenditure of which they were to have no control. If the Bill were even sent only before a Committee, it would put his constituents to an expense of at least 5,000l to oppose it. Was that to be endured? And with regard to what had fallen from the noble Lord opposite (the Earl of Lincoln) and the right hon. Baronet (Sir W. Somerville), was it not a degradation to the citizens of Dublin, the second city in the kingdom, that their rights and privileges should be decided upon by the dictum of the Lord Lieutenant? No one respected the present Lord Lieutenant of Ireland more than he did; but that nobleman had enough on his hands without undertaking the management of the municipality of the city. As to the board proposed under the Bill, it was altogether a fiction. It included his (Mr. Reynolds') 1317 name, and that of the Lord Mayor, and of Alderman Guinness, all of whom had repudiated the scheme altogether, and he disclaimed all connexion with it.

§ MR. GROGAN
pressed for the adjournment of the second reading for a fortnight.

§ SIR W. SOMERVILLE
also recommended the adjournment for a fortnight. At the same time he begged to assure the hon. Member for the city of Dublin (Mr. Reynolds) that it was not his wish that the Bill should be sent to a Committee upstairs.

List of the AYES.
Anderson, A.	M'Gregor, J.
Bass, M. T.	Marshall, J. G.
Bellew, R. M.	Maule, rt. hon. F.
Boyle, hon. Col.	Meagher, T.
Bright, J.	O'Connor, F.
Brown, W.	Osborne, R.
Clay, Sir W.	Pattison, J.
Cobden, R.	Pilkington, J.
Crawford, W. S.	Salwey, Col.
Devereux, J. T.	Scrope, G. P.
Drummond, H.	Scully, F.
Duncan, G.	Shafto, R. D.
Ellis, J.	Stuart, Lord D.
Evans, Sir De L.	Talbot, J. H.
Fox, R. M.	Thompson, Col.
Greene, J.	Thompson, G.
Grenfell, C. P.	Walmsley, Sir J.
Grey, R. W.	Wawn, J. T.
Harris, R.	Willcox, B. M.
Hayter, rt. hon. W. G.	Williams, J.
Henry, A.	Wyld, J.
Hindley, C.	TELLERS.
Hume, J.	Fagan, W.
Lushington, C.	Reynolds, J.

List of the NOES.
Anstey, T. C.	Cavendish, hon. C. C.
Ashley, Lord	Cavendish, W. G.
Bagshaw, J.	Chandos, Marq. of
Baillie, H. J.	Christopher, R. A.
Boldero, H. G.	Cocks, T. S.
Bourke, R. S.	Cubitt, W.
Bramston, T. W.	Douglas, Sir C. E.
Brotherton, J.	Duckworth, Sir J. T. B.
Buller, Sir J. Y.	Duncombe, hon. A.
Campbell, hon. W. F.	Duncuft, J.
Carew, W. H. P.	Dundas, Adm.

Dundas, G.	Lincoln, Earl of
Du Pre, C. G.	Mahon, Visct.
Ebrington, Visct.	Maitland, T.
Egerton, W. T.	Mangles, R. D.
Elliot, hon. J. E.	Matheson, Col.
Ewart, W.	Palmerston, Visct.
Farnham, E. B.	Patten, J. W.
Farrer, J.	Plowden, W. H. C.
Fuller, A. E.	Russell, F. C. H.
Gladstone, rt. hon. W. E.	Rutherfurd, A.
Goulburn, rt. hon. H.	Sandars, G.
Greene, T.	Scott, hon. F.
Hall, Col.	Seymer, H. K.
Hardcastle, J. A.	Smith, rt. hon. R. V.
Hay, Lord J.	Somerville, rt. hn. Sir W.
Henley, J. W.	Stafford, A.
Herbert, rt. hon. S.	Stanley, E.
Herries, rt. hon. J. C.	Thornely, T.
Hildyard, R. C.	Tyrell, Sir J. T.
Hobhouse, rt. hon. Sir J.	Verner, Sir W.
Hope, Sir J.	Verney, Sir H.
Hope, H. T.	Wall, C. B.
Howard, Lord E.	Wilson, M.
Jervis, Sir J.	TELLERS.
Jones, Capt.	Grogan, E.
Lewis, rt. hon. Sir T. F.	Taylor, T. E.