WAYS AND MEANS—THE ESTIMATES. (Hansard, 16 February 1849)

§ MR. HUME
should repeat the question he had already put to Her Majesty's Government, to which he should say that the answer he had received was neither courteous nor explanatory. They were about to be called upon to vote away 14,000,000l. or 15,000,000l., and he wished to know whether Her Majesty's Government was prepared, before going into the estimates, to submit a statement or a budget, or whatever else they pleased to call it, which should show the aggregate amount of the expenditure of the Government, and the means by which those expenses were to be met? Last Session the House did not support him (Mr. Hume) in his exertions to obtain such account, and the consequence was, that at the end of the Session 769 they were obliged to submit to loans being-raised to meet their annual expenditure, a course which he thought in these days no honest man should adopt or submit to. They were now again called upon to do the same thing—to spend money first, and then to consider how they were to pay it—how they were to find the means of meeting the obligations they had contracted. He therefore begged to ask the Government whether it was their intention to submit a statement of the ways and means as well as the expenditure in Committee?

§ The CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER
replied, that the usual course was not to lay the budget before the House before the estimates were voted. The usual course was to vote the estimates, and then to make the financial statement.

§ MR. HUME
said, that that was what he called a system of expending money first, and voting the provision for it afterwards. He gave notice that he would oppose it when the votes were asked for.

§ MR. DISRAELI
observed, that some time time ago the House had been informed by a Ministerial statement, that it was necessary that there should be a great increase of taxation, but that the estimates had been drawn up with every attention to economy. The House had, however, refused to support the Ministry on that occasion; and it had since turned out, by their own confession, by the confession of the hon. Gentleman the Secretary for the Admiralty (Mr. Ward), in a document lately published, that affairs were managed in his department so that there was not an audit even of the wages account that no stock was taken, and that no account was kept of expended stores. Under such circumstances it was easy to make a reduction in the expenditure. In such a state of matters, therefore, he thought the suggestion of the hon. Member for Montrose (Mr. Hume) was worthy of consideration; and, moreover, that the time had come, when considerations of what had formerly been the custom ought not to influence the House so much as they had once done.

§ MR. HUME
said, that he was not one of those who would allow a single shilling for the Army, the Navy, or the Ordnance, until the House and the country should be satisfied that there were sufficient moans for the support of these branches of the public service. He would not agree either to violate public faith, or throw away public money; and if even the country Gentlemen intended to pay the slightest attention to 770 the financial affairs of the country, he entreated them—by any regard which they felt for the public interests—to support him in attempting to put a stop to this system of thriftless and blindfold expenditure. The plan seemed to be to spend the money first, and to think how they were to get it afterwards. Pie did hope that Government would reconsider the course they intended to adopt on this point.

MR. VERNON SMITH
observed, that no reply had been given to the question of the hon. Member for Montrose (Mr. Hume), as to whether the right hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer would lay on the table a statement of how far the recommendation of the Committee on the naval estimates had been carried into effect. He thought some statement as to this point ought to be prefixed to the estimates.

§ The CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER
observed, that he had not answered this question because he had not heard it. In reply, he had only to say, that his hon. Friend (Mr. Ward), in moving the estimates in question, would state fully, distinctly, and in detail, the points with respect to which the recommendations of the Committee had been carried out. He (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) thought that this would be a more convenient way of conveying information to the House upon the subject, than by printing and prefixing any dry statement to the estimates.

§ MR. WARD
might add, that all the recommendations of the Committee as to the form of the estimates had been attended to.

MR. J. B. SMITH
observed, that last year the financial statement had been made before the supplies were voted.

§ LORD J. RUSSELL
said, that last year the income tax was to expire on the 5th of April. It was therefore necessary, anterior to that period, to bring before the House the intentions of the Government as to the renewal of that tax. The usual course, however, had been, when the financial year concluded, for the Chancellor of the Exchequer to state to the House what sums he expected to raise in ways and moans to meet those which bad been voted in supply. To that course they still proposed to adhere, as it seemed to him to be a reasonable and proper course. The hon. Gentleman the Member for Montrose had argued that they had got into debt last year in consequence of voting money before the budget; but the hon. Gentleman 771 ought to recollect that a financial statement had been made at the very beginning of the Session.

§ MR. HUME
said, from the papers delivered to hon. Members that day, that up to 31st March, 1848, about 7,670,000l. had been voted for the Navy, and the actual expenditure had been 8,000,000l., being an excess of 323,000l. Now, if this mode of proceeding was suffered without any party being responsible, then he said it Would be better to lock the doors of that House, and let them go home to their constituents.