HC Deb 13 February 1849 vol 102 cc660-7

MR. C. LEWIS moved for leave to bring in a Bill to consolidate and amend the laws relating to public roads in England and North Wales. He said he would, as far as he was able, follow the example of the hon. Member opposite (Mr. H. Drummond) by making a short speech; but as the subject was one of great magnitude, he must be permitted to state the contents of the Bill which he begged to be allowed to introduce. It was, perhaps, scarcely necessary for him to speak of the present law with regard to public roads and highways. The old law of England relative to highways imposed the liability of repair exclusively on the parish. During the last century, and the early part of the present century, a number of Acts were passed by which the main roads of the country were taken from the parish, and placed under the control of trustees, who were enabled to levy tolls for the repair of the roads, and the payment of the principal and interest of the debt incurred. The principal roads of the country were selected according to the state of the traffic. Many changes had, however, taken place in the traffic, and of late years a great revolution had been created by the introduction of railways. In consequence of that general introduction of railways, many of the main trunks of communication had lost their importance; they had become secondary; and branch lines not included in the Turnpike Acts had become the principal lines of communication. The consequence was, that the introduction of railways had entirely subverted the only existing system of maintaining the roads; and now it became incumbent on the House to deal in some practical manner with the subject. One of the consequences of the change was, that many trustees had become insolvent; that they were unable to discharge the debt they had contracted; that, in some instances, the mortgagees and bondholders now collected the tolls on their own account; that litigation had been produced; and that the necessity had arisen of coming on the parish for a highway rate in aid in order to maintain the roads. A temporary Act was passed in the year 1841, which had been continued by annual renewal since. The system also of the renewing of Turnpike Acts was not satisfactory; and it had been thought advisable not to confine the measure to highways, but to include in it also the turnpike roads for England and Scotland by a single Act of the Government, thus making it necessary for the Government to express an opinion upon the subject; and therefore the whole system of Turnpike Acts was at present in a very unsatisfactory state. Under these circumstances, it had been thought advisable to attempt to deal with the entire subject of roads, not confining the measure to highways, as was done by the measure of last year, but including both turnpike roads and highways properly so called. A measure had been introduced by the Government last Session, by which it was proposed to deal with highways, excluding turnpike roads. It was referred to a Committee, but it was not proceeded with; and one objection to it was, that it created an expensive machinery for the maintenance of highways, and that it took no notice of that part of the question which was of the greatest difficulty, namely, the turnpike roads. It was therefore advisable now to introduce a measure that would include both highways and turnpike roads. The number of places repairing their own highways was at present 18,000. The number of miles was 100,000. The annual expense of highways, exclusive of turnpike roads, was 1,400,000l. The number of turnpike trusts was 1,150. The annual expense of turnpikes in England and Wales in 1846 was 1,378,000l. Therefore, taking both together, the highways and turnpike roads, the expense annually was 2,778,000l. But, unfortunately, the financial part of the question was not confined to this; for a very large debt was created under the Turnpike Acts. The bond debt was 6,826,000l., and the interest was 1,441,000l.; so that the debt of the turnpike trusts in all was about 8,267,000l. That was the state of things with which the House had now to deal; and those acquainted with the two classes of roads must admit, that there was nothing less satisfactory or creditable to Parliament than leaving the subject any longer unattended to. It called for a remedy; and the only question was, whether the measure he proposed was the one to meet the difficulty. At present there were two "units" of taxation—in the first place, the parish, and in the next, the turnpike trust, which maintained its turnpike roads by means of tolls. He proposed by the present measure to abolish both these "units" of taxation, to abolish all parochial liability for the maintenance of roads, to abolish those very arbitrary concerns the turnpike trusts, and to take, as the area of taxation and management, the county. There were many reasons why the county should be taken instead of the parish. He proposed to place the local control of the roads in a committee of the quarter-sessions, to be elected by the magistrates, and to be called "the county road board." This body would have a general control, and the power of electing a surveyor, to be paid out of the county rate. With regard to the local management, he proposed that the districts should be the poor-law unions, and that the county board should have the power of dividing ail the roads in the county into two classes—one, the main roads; and the other, the branch roads. On the main roads they would be empowered, subject to the general regulations of the Bill, to collect tolls; and the other class of roads would be maintained in the manner he would afterwards state. He proposed that on the 25th of March, 1850, all turnpike and highway jurisdiction should cease, and a new machinery be put in force from that day. But there was another point. The debt owing by the turnpike trusts amounted to a sum exceeding 8,000,000l. The main difficulty centred in that debt; and in order to defray it, he proposed that the county roads board should take measures to form a county road fund, which should be derived, first, from tolls levied on the main roads; and, secondly, from a county rate—a county rate being substituted for highway rate. Arbitrators would be appointed to estimate the existing market value of all securities, and the county board should issue debentures for the amount charged and secured on the county roads fund. The only question would be as to inequalities which might arise from the charge being made coincident with the entire county, though some of the turnpike trusts might be connected with adjoining counties. But unless some arrangement of the kind proposed were adopted, it would be impossible to devise a general plan by which the debt would be secured, and full security given to the bondholders. It was proposed that the debt should be paid off in a period of not less than seven, or more than twenty-one, years. By the present Acts, no provision was made for the ultimate extinction of the debts. To pay 100l. in twenty-one years, allowing 4 per cent interest, required an annual payment of 7l. 2s. 6d. To pay 100l. in seven years, allowing 4 per cent interest, required an annual payment of 16l. 13s. 4d. The difference between extinction in seven and in twenty-one years was, therefore, very considerable. He (Mr. Lewis) had now stated the outline of the Bill; but before he concluded, he must be allowed to say, that having given his best consideration to the subject, he had arrived at the conviction that some measure founded upon the principles he had put forward as the foundation of the present Bill, must be adopted as the basis of legislation on the subject. If that were not considered by the House as a safe basis on which to legislate, the only alternative was to resort to local legislation, and to continue a system fraught with many inconveniences; but the inconvenience attending local boards was, that Parliament could exercise over them but very imperfect control, and that affairs would have to be settled by Committees upstairs in connexion with local interests, to the detriment of great and important interests in the country. The hon. Gentleman concluded by moving for leave to introduce the Bill.

MR. HENLEY

thanked the hon. Gentleman (Mr. Lewis) for the lucid statement he had made. With reference to the debt, he begged to remind the House that it had been incurred in order to facilitate the traffic of the country. The subject was one of great difficulty, and no one could say that the scheme proposed by the hon. Gentleman was not comprehensive. The hon. Gentleman had told them, that in this country there were some 100,000 miles of highways, and about 2,000 turnpike trusts. The hon. Gentleman proposed to throw all these into the management of the 700 poor-law unions throughout the country. Whether the guardians could manage such an amount of additional business, was a point which ought to be considered. The great difficulty, however, in the plan proposed, was the debt. It was proposed by the hon. Gentleman to mortgage the county rates of England to the extent of 8,000,000l. According to the plan of the hon. Gentleman, the county board was to establish a sinking fund, to pay off the debt in twenty-one years. To do so, an annual sum of 400,000l. would be required, or in other words, half the amount of the county rate at present expended in the maintenance of the public roads, without including interest. That was a very heavy tax to lay on counties at a time when they were beginning to taste the pleasure of wheat at 5s. a bushel; and after they had cut down hills, and overcome engineering difficulties at a great expense, not for their own benefit, but for the benefit of those who wanted to travel at ten miles an hour. A few years ago a measure, cognate with this, was introduced into Parliament. The hon. Gentleman ought also to recollect that the debt had been incurred for commercial purposes and to facilitate traffic between different parts of the country. He lived in a county in which a great number of roads existed, which were a heavy taxation upon the ratepayers in the county, which he did not think was fair. There was always a great objection to dealing with bonded debts in Parliament. One thing had not been stated in the explanation of the hon. Gentleman, and that was, the present improved and improving condition of the turnpike roads, a condition which, for the last three or four years, had been much better than previously. Another matter connected with the subject was worthy of consideration; and that was, that for the same period there had been a small but progressive decrease in the aggregate debt of the turnpike roads. He believed, also, that the expenditure upon them had been lessened since the diminution of that great traffic which, in contradistinction from the mere local, was called the "through" traffic. He had no intention, however, of throwing any impediment in the way of the present measure, or of its full and fair discussion; for it was a great and comprehensive one, and likely to be productive of much general benefit.

SIR J. PAKINGTON

had gathered from the clear statement of the hon. Member (Mr. Lewis), that the principle of his measure was to be the consolidation of turnpike trusts, and the payment of their debts by means of a sinking fund. That entirely met his idea as to the manner in which the difficulties connected with the question of turnpike trusts might be removed. In 1843, when Sir James Graham was Secretary for the Home Department, a Bill was introduced relative to turnpike trusts, and was referred to a Committee, of which he (Sir J. Pakington) was chairman. That Committee concurred with him in strongly recommending the adoption of the principle now proposed by the hon. Under Secretary for the Home Department. The hon. Member for Oxford (Mr. Henley) had omitted to take into consideration that the tolls derived from the turnpike roads would go in aid of the sinking fund to pay off the debt; but, at the same time, it could not be denied that the adoption of the measure would impose a great charge on the county rates; and, on that account, it could not fail to be viewed with jealousy.

MR. BROTHERTON

approved of the measure suggested, and, believing it would be productive of general benefit, expressed a hope that it might eventually be adopted.

MR. SLANEY

observed, that no doubt there were considerable difficulties in the way of settling the present question; but he believed the clear statement which had been made that night, would be met with approbation throughout the country, and it showed, at least, that the greatest possible attention had been paid to the subject. Instead of the carrying out of the proposition being an expensive improvement, he was of opinion that it would eventually be found the most economical arrangement for the landed interest that had ever been made in this country. Every one knew how much good means of communication throughout a district enhanced the value of land. He concluded by expressing his hope that the hon. Gentleman (Mr. Lewis) who made the proposition would receive all the fair and honourable assistance which they could give him in its progress through the House.

MR. SPOONER

thought there was a good deal of justice in what had fallen from his hon. Friend the Member for Oxfordshire (Mr. Henley). He did not think the tolls could come in aid of the sinking fund, as was contemplated, because they were at present inadequate to meet the charges on them; and, besides, he considered that it would not be fair to have well-managed trusts brought in to bear the burden of ill-managed ones. He was content, however, to give the measure every fair consideration. It was a matter of great importance also for them to consider, how they would bring upon the county rates the sum of 8,000,000l., which was now funded on the security of turnpike roads.

CAPTAIN PECHELL

confessed he looked with some suspicion upon a proposition which would tend to put the roads of the country under a centralisation system instead of a local control—a system to which he was always opposed; and although he was not disposed to oppose the measure from what they had then heard of it, he would caution the hon. Member who introduced it against being too sanguine about its ultimate success.

SIR G. STRICKLAND

said, one of the great difficulties with which they would have to contend, was the immense debt which now impended over the turnpike trusts. Those which were well managed, he agreed with the hon. Member for Birmingham (Mr. Spooner), ought not to be saddled with the debts of others' mismanagement. There was another part of the subject upon which he felt some mistrust. For centuries there had been a certain mode adopted in this country for the management of highways with branches, which it might not be advisable to change. He thought the country roads at the present moment much better than they had been at former periods; and he would ask, why was it that these roads were now to be placed under this new management? He had a mistrust, he confessed, about leaving the highways in the hands of boards of guardians. He believed that they had enough to do at present, and more than they could do well, without imposing any such additional work as this upon them. He gave the hon. Member (Mr. Lewis) who brought forward the measure every credit for the best intentions, and he hoped all parties would concur in helping him to bring his labours to a useful result.

Leave given to bring in the Bill.