HC Deb 06 February 1849 vol 102 cc369-73

MR. C. ANSTEY moved for leave to bring in a Bill for the further repeal of enactments imposing pains and penalties on Roman Catholics on account of their religious observances. Considering that he had never been refused the usual courtesy granted to hon. Member asking for leave to introduce a Bill of such a nature—considering also that his Bill was substantially the same as the Bill he was allowed to introduce last Session—further, considering that all the alterations made in it, had been made in the spirit of conciliation to the objections taken to it by hon. Gentlemen on that (the Opposition) side of the House, that it fully recognised the supremacy of the Queen after the passing of the Bill; considering all these things, he trusted it was not too much to expect that the usual courtesy would be extended him, that leave would be given to him to introduce the Bill, and that the discussion of its principle would be on the second reading.


trusted the hon. Gentleman would not think him guilty of any want of courtesy towards him, even although he found himself compelled to refuse the appeal which had been made to him. But when the House was told that the Bill was the same in substance as the Bill on which the House had pronounced an opinion in 1847, and the same as the one on which the House had also pronounced an opinion in 1848, he really felt it right to ask, considering the change which had within the last twenty-four hours taken place in the rules of that House, whether this was not the time, if the Bill was to be introduced, to enter upon the discussion of it. He did not exaggerate the fact, when he stated to the House, that for twelve Wednesdays of last Session, the House was occupied with the consideration of that Bill. The hon. Gentleman, who had, no doubt, a keener recollection than he possessed on the subject, would correct him if he were in error; but he believed, speaking from recollection and without reference to the almanack, that no less than twelve divisions took place on the question, and that not one of the Cabinet Ministers voted either on one side or the other, giving thus a tacit assent to the majorities recorded against the Bill. Under these circumstances, he did think that it would be found essential to the despatch of public business, if the opinion of the House was now strongly expressed on the question of the introduction of the Bill; and in case it was adverse, it might be considered as conclusive against proceeding with the Bill this Session. He was reluctant to oppose the introduction of the Bill, but he felt bound to take that course.


appealed to the hon. and learned Member for Youghal to withdraw the Motion. He had been a warm supporter of it; but he felt that to persist in it, would cause a waste of the public time, from which no possible good could result, after the decision of the House had so recently been pronounced. He trusted the hon. and learned Gentleman would be content with having upon a former occasion obtained the approbation of the House to the principle of the measure, and not, under present circumstances, press it this Session. If the hon. and learned Member assented to this view, he (the Earl of Arundel and Surrey) was quite willing to take all the responsibility of that advice.


meant no disrespect towards the noble Earl, when he said he did not agree with him that he had been a warm supporter of the Bill. He considered that the noble Earl, and those who sat upon the same benches, had lost the Bill upon a former occasion; or, at least, that the absence of many Members from that side of the House was owing to the course taken by the noble Earl. He could not, therefore, concede either this or any other point to the noble Earl.


said, the hon. and learned Gentleman had arrived at a most monstrous conclusion, so far as he was concerned; but he was not surprised at it, when he remembered the treatment which many of the hon. and learned Member's supporters received at his hands towards the end of the last Session.


feared that if the hon. and learned Member (Mr. Anstey) would not take the hint from his noble Friend (the Earl of Arundel), he would not take one from him. But, certainly, after the opinions that had been expressed, he (Sir G. Grey) could foresee nothing but waste of time, if the Bill was pressed. He had himself supported it upon a former occasion—he would not say very warmly—because he did not anticipate any very great benefit from it; but after what had occurred, he thought it would be well if the hon. and learned Gentleman were to take a little more time to consider whether it would be advantageous for the object he had in view to press the measure this Session.


also urged the hon. Member to withdraw his Motion, but without effect.

On the question— That leave be given to bring in a Bill for the further repeal of enactments imposing pains and penalties on Roman Catholics, on account of their religious observances;"—

The House thereupon divided:—Ayes 41; Noes 43: Majority 2.

List of the AYES.
Adair, H. E. Mitchell, T. A.
Arundel and Surrey, Earl of Moffatt, G.
Moore, G. H.
Bellew, R. M. Nugent, Lord
Blackall, S. W. O'Flaherty, A.
Bouverie, hon. E. P. Ricardo, J. L.
Brotherton, J. Somerville, rt. hon. Sir W.
Bunbury, E. H. Stuart, Lord D.
Clements, hon. C. S. Sullivan, M.
Duncan, Visct. Tenison, E. K.
Duncan, G. Thompson, Col.
Dunne, F. P. Thompson, G.
Fordyce, A. D. Thornely, T.
Greene, J. Tollemache, hon. F. J.
Haggitt, F. R. Townshend, Capt.
Henry, A. Trelawny, J. S.
Hervey, Lord A. Urquhart, D.
Heyworth, L. Williams, J.
Jervis, Sir J. Wilson, J.
Kershaw, J.
King, hon. P. J. L. TELLERS.
Lincoln, Earl of Anstey, T. C.
Matheson, Col. Grattan, H.
List of the NOES.
Arkwright, G. Henley, J. W.
Barrington, Visct. Hodgson, W. N.
Blair, S. Hood, Sir A.
Boldero, H G. Legh, G. C.
Bourke, R. S. Lockhart, W.
Brand, T. Mackenzie, W. F.
Bremridge, R. Mandeville, Visct.
Brooke, Lord Morgan, O.
Campbell, hon. W. F. Mullings, J. R.
Carew, W. H. P. Newry and Morne, Visct
Cavendish, hon. C. C. Palmerston, Visct.
Charteris, hon. F. Plowden, W. H. C.
Christy, S. Plumptre, J. P.
Cobbold, J. C. St. George, C.
Deedes, W. Sandars, G.
Duckworth, Sir J.T. B. Seymer, H. K.
Floyer, J. Stafford, A.
Frewen, C. H. Talfourd, Serj.
Greenall, G. Turner, G. J.
Gwyn, H. Wortley, rt. hon. J. S.
Hallyburton, Lord J. F. TELLERS.
Hamilton, J. F. Inglis, R. H.
Heald, J. Spooner, R.

Leave to bring in the Bill refused.

House adjourned at One o'clock.