PASSENGERS' BILL. (Hansard, 4 April 1849)

§ SIR H. WILLOUGHBY
said, he toot it for granted that the words "mercantile vessel" would be construed to mean any description of sea-going vessel; therefore, upon that point, he did not think it necessary to trouble the House with any observations; hut he rose to say that he thought the regulations which this measure imposed ought to be made applicable to vessels proceeding from one part of the united kingdom to another. A striking instance had recently occurred, that of the Londonderry steamer, showing the necessity of some regulations in the case of passengers proceeding by vessels engaged in what might be called the coasting trade. He wished to know whether the hon. Gentleman opposite would have any objection to introduce some such regulations when they came to consider the Bill in Committee.

§ MR. J. O'CONNELL
said, that if the hon. Baronet would look at Clause 4, he would find that it entirely prevented the introduction of any such regulations as he had properly suggested. He was sure that if the hon. Gentleman the Under Secretary for the Colonies could only see the way in which steamers leaving Ireland were crowded, he would at once acknowledge the necessity of making some provisions against such abuses; he doubted, however, whether it could be effected in the present Bill, and, if it could not, he was quite of opinion that a short Bill ought to be brought in and without delay passed for that special purpose.

§ MR. MONSELL
was sure that the justice of the appeal made by the hon. Baronet behind him would be felt by the House. It had been found, and he was happy to say so, that the Bill of last year had worked well; he rather regretted to find that some of its provisions were altered by the present measure; and he hoped that the hon. Gentleman the Under Secretary for the Colonies would see the advantage of referring to last year's Bill before that which was now before them went into Committee. The subject was one of great and growing importance. As many as 250,000 of our fellow-subjects became every year interested parties in these Passengers' Bills; and he, therefore, thought the time of the House by no means mispent in at- 300 tempts to render it as perfect as possible. One of the greatest difficulties was to accommodate the dietary to the different habits of the English and Scotch on the one hand, and the Irish on the other. The early habits of those nations were so dissimilar, that it became no easy matter to determine upon a dietary that should be suitable to all of them. Upon these grounds, as well as for other reasons, he did think it would be much better to send this Bill to a Select Committee before they proceeded with it any further, for such a Committee could best manage details respecting the quantity and quality of the diet. Another point on which he wished to say a word was the appointment of surgeons to passengers' vessels. The appointment of medical men was at present left in the hands of the owners of the vessels—subject, of course, to the approbation of the emigration agents; but still the appointment was practically in the hands of the owners of the vessels. Now, that was leaving the matter to those parties who were most interested in defeating its beneficial operation. It would be much better if they required that those officers should be appointed in the manner suggested by Mr. Stephen De Year. He saw no reason whatever why the Colonial Office should not appoint a person to see that no abuses connected with the appointment of surgeons took place. Upon the whole, he earnestly recommended the reference of the Bill to a Select Committee upstairs.

§ COLONEL DUNNE
said, that the Bill would introduce great improvements, especially as regarded the dietary. Perhaps it was fixed on too high a scale for the poor people of Ireland.

§ MR. H. HERBERT
observed, that the temporary measure of last year had worked very well; and he thought that evidence of that ought to be laid before a Committee of the House.

§ MR. HUME
had always been opposed to legislating in detail upon such subjects as this. It was well known that many letters came from Canada to this country, and from other places also, complaining of the inadequate manner in which the trade in emigration was carried on, and complaining very strongly of the state of the vessels in which emigrants were carried out. There was every reason to believe that the officers in charge of those vessels neglected their duty. He thought that Government ought to require certificates from the emigration agents at the different 301 ports where the vessels arrived as to the condition of the vessel, &c. Furthermore, he considered that it should be the duty of those officers to see that in all emigrant vessels cleanliness and ventilation were duly attended to.

§ MR. HAWES
said, he was very glad that there existed no objection to the principle of the Bill, and that it, therefore, might now be read a second time without any one being dissentient. In the course of the present conversation various details had been mentioned, and he was happy to observe it universally admitted that the Bill of last year had effected a beneficial change. He could confirm the statements of hon. Members upon this point by saying that the last accounts from Canada, from Australia, and from the United States, were all in favour of the working of that Bill. The present measure, however, could hardly be called a new Bill, for it was a general consolidation Bill; it, therefore, necessarily comprehended many details contained in former Acts; and, in bringing the whole of the law into one general Bill, the House would find that it contained many provisions which were already in force. As to the dietary, he was bound to say, that the evidence which came under their notice decidedly showed that the dietary ought to be improved, not only in order that the emigrant should be more comfortable during his voyage, but that on his landing he should be in better health, more vigorous, more capable of labour, and, therefore, better able to obtain work and food. The dietary which the Bill of last year enjoined had been a great improvement upon the preceding practice; and that being admitted, some people said, why not be content? but when they went into Committee, he could bring conclusive evidence to show the necessity for a still better dietary. He might, however, at present, make this observation, that heretofore the emigrants were in the habit of taking with them some food themselves, but that if in future there were a full dietary it would be found, on the whole, not to produce any material increase of cost to the emigrants. In his opinion, these matters ought not to be left to the emigration agents alone; but the law on the subject should be clear and unequivocal, and should be fully known to landed proprietors and others who might he disposed to promote emigration. With respect to the suggestion about providing a different dietary for vessels, according to the part of the united 302 kingdom from which they sailed, he begged to say, that he saw great objections to introducing any such provisions in the Bill. Then, as regarded the reference of the Bill to a Committee upstairs, it was a point on which, at present, he did not like to pledge himself, but rather preferred to reserve it till the House reassembled. He next came to the suggestion of the hon. Baronet the Member for Evesham regarding coasting vessels. For any suggestion proceeding from him he entertained the highest respect; but he feared that his views on this point could scarcely be carried out now, for the coasting trade evidently did not come within the scope of the Bill. Regulations suited to coasting vessels could not well be made to apply to those which went long voyages. His hon. Friend the Member for Montrose had said that the agents abroad ought to hear and make reports upon all complaints which might be made to them respecting emigrant vessels, He could inform the House that that had already been done; and he now ventured to hope, that for the immense mass of human beings who every year were proceeding from this country to another quarter of the globe, the Passengers' Act would prove most beneficial.

§ MAJOR BLACKALL
was favourable to referring the Bill to a Select Committee, and protested against there being any difference in the dietary of English, Scotch, or Irish emigrants. He thought it would be a cruel disappointment to many of the Irish people, who had been saving money during the winter with the object of emigrating to America, to require them to provide a dietary for the voyage which was entirely beyond their means.