HC Deb 11 May 1848 vol 98 cc844-51

The LORD ADVOCATE moved the Second Reading of this Bill, the name of which, he said, would be sufficient to gain for it the favourable consideration of the House. A Committee of the House had sat upon the subject in February, 1847, and had reported the most startling facts relative to the want of accommodation for pauper lunatics in Scotland. In many of the Scottish counties there were absolutely no asylums whatever for the reception of pauper lunatics. Amongst others, the important counties of Argyle, Ayr, Inverness, Clackmannan, Kincardine, and Peebles, were in this predicament. In fact, in no less than twenty-four counties in Scotland there was absolutely no accommodation for lunatics in the shape of public asylums; and where they did exist their accommodations were generally very inadequate. There existed in Scotland 3,410 lunatic paupers, supported in whole or in part by parish relief: of these were accommodated in asylums in different parts of the country 1,619 paupers; for the remainder of these unfortunate persons there was not a cell in any asylum in any part of Scotland; and it was to the way in which they were maintained in the dwellings of their relations and friends that he now wished to call the attention of the House. That was one of the subjects referred to in the report of the Committee. With the permission of the House he would lay before them a short list of counties in Scotland in which there are establishments for lunatics, distinguishing public from private establishments, and showing the total number of patients, and also the number of paupers in each. The learned Lord read the following statement:— Lunatic Asylums

Counties Establishments. Public. Private. Total Number Number of Patients. Number of Pauper Patients.
Aberdeen 1 — 210 165
Aberdeen — 1 15
Bute — 2 2 —
Dumfries — 1 130 66
Edinburgh 1 — 467 344
Edinburgh — 12 259 92
Elgin 1 — 30 30
Forfar 2 — 336 252
Forfar — 2 2 —
Inverness 1 — 10 10
Lanark 1 — 545 388
Lanark — 4 117 70
Linlithgow — 1 1 —
Perth 1 — 164 90
Renfrew — 2 129 112
Total 8 25 2,417 1,619
Ho would next direct their attention to the number of public and private asylums in each county, the rate per head for the maintenance of pauper lunatics in each, and the number of those lunatics who lived with their friends, with the sum allowed for their maintenance. The abstract was as follows [see Table below]:—

It would thus appear that there was no accommodation whatever in any asylum, public or private, for 1,791 pauper lunatics—that those who were so fortunate as to obtain admission into public asylums were maintained there at rates varying from 16l. to 20l. per head, while those who lived with their friends were allowed sums of 3l. and 4l. per year, and in some cases but 14s. Was it possible that those who had such a miserable pittance could exist in any state but that of the greatest misery and degradation, painful to contemplate? He had made inquiry into their condition, and the result was, that in many instances he had become acquainted with the most distressing particulars. It appeared that many of these poor creatures were confined in dungeons, chained on their beds of straw, and lived on little better than garbage. In fact, it was impossible to feed them on wholesome food at a rate of 3l. or 4l. a head. A few cases taken from the report of the Poor Law Commission Inquiry for Scotland would show how pitiable was the lot of the latter class of lunatics:— John Livingston, a violent maniac. Lying upon straw on a wooden floor, in a loft above his brother-in-law's smithy. Has no clothing on him whatever. He tears all his clothes off him. Had a coverlet over him. He is very ill just now. Has not slept for two nights. Has been a lunatic for eight years. Was said to have had a stroke of the sun when he was at Buenos Ayres. He is obliged to be constantly chained. Betty Fraser, aged forty. Unmarried. A maniac. She was taken charge of by her father and mother, and was kept in constant confinement in a garret over the room in which they lived. Her father was a mason, aged sixty-nine. They had no other children living with them. 4l. a year was allowed

Counties. Public Asylums. Number. Price. Private Asylums. Number. Price. With Friends. Number. Price.
£ s d. £ s. d. £ s. d.
Aberdeen 114 15 12 0 — — — 148 5 12 0
Argyle 25 26 13 0 2 20 12 0 107 5 4 0
Ayr 39 22 17 0 — — 81 7 12 0
Banff 17 22 9 2 — — 68 7 12 11
Bute 9 26 9 6 — — 10 5 5 10
Caithness 9 23 17 9 1 21 10 0 81 2 9 1
Dumbarton 20 24 2 0 1 20 0 0 24 9 11 3
Dumfries 28 20 10 7 1 22 0 0 80 6 5 2
Edinburgh 242 15 10 7 24 17 4 0 56 7 19 4
Fife 62 21 14 1 17 21 1 3 80 7 15 3
Forfar 155 15 16 9 1 24 0 0 78 6 19 8
Haddington 8 16 8 8 16 18 18 7 46 8 9 3
Inverness 11 25 6 4 — — 80 4 0 2
Lanark 239 24 19 0 13 19 9 3 109 6 6 9
Nairn 1 25 0 0 — — 14 4 13 3 Orkney 4 14 14 0 — — 41 2 4 0
Perth 86 20 11 7 — — 132 7 9 2
Renfrew 43 23 14 0 39 17 2 6 57 8 10 0
Ross 12 20 4 0 1 20 0 0 101 4 16 4
Roxburgh 9 16 10 0 13 19 7 8 51 8 14 0
Sutherland 4 23 2 6 — — 28 5 0 0
Zetland 9 21 2 8 — — 16 0 14 3
for Betty Fraser's support. She had been for many years confined. She generally lay in bed with a blanket, and no other clothes about her. She was very violent if any one went into the room, and would attempt to escape when the door was opened. Her mother said she went into the room every day, but that, had it not been for a hurt which Betty Fraser got in her foot, she could not have withstood her. Her habits were filthy. She was never washed, and her food was put in for her at a hole in the wall. Alexander Anderson, aged twenty-five. Fatuous, and sometimes very violent. Allowance 2s. 6d. a week. Lives with his mother and sister. The mother is a widow forty-nine years of age. She sews muslin. Her daughter, aged twenty-nine, also sews muslin. Alexander Anderson is confined in a bed, which is boarded up so that he cannot get out. He has been kept in this way for nearly six years. He has no debility, but is strong and active. He sometimes gets out of his box bed, and is with difficulty got back, He was out of bed last Sunday, and a man who lives next door, was called in to help to put him back. He is outrageous at times, and threatens his mother and sister. They would not object to his being sent to any asylum. His food was put through the door. There were many other cases of a similar nature; but he would not refer to more of them, because it was as painful to him to read as it must be to the House to hear them; but he could not avoid reading an extract from the evidence of Dr. Browne, of the Crichton Asylum, Dumfries, showing the prejudicial effects to the patients of such treatment as was detailed in the extracts which he had referred to. The passage in Dr. Browne's evidence was this:— From the state in which pauper lunatics are brought to your asylum, have you formed any opinion as to the mode in which they have been treated previously?—I have. And what opinion did you form? —That it was entirely inconsistent with their comfort and cure, and with the dictates of common humanity. They were generally brought bound, galled, in a state of shocking filth, crouching, with their limbs contracted, showing that they had long been confined, or that they had been long in bed. This applies not to all, indeed, but to many. Though we do not receive fatuous patients and all cases whatever, it is my belief that none are sent to us who can be managed in any way at home, nor until they became nuisances, or dangerous to themselves and others. It must, he thought, appear surprising to the House that such a state of things should have existed up to the present moment in a country like Scotland; but still more surprising would it be, if the House, having been made aware of the existence of such evils, and having been asked to apply a remedy, refused to step in and sanction the passing of this measure, to which he expected their unanimous consent. For the honour of the country, and more especially for the credit of those hon. Members representing Scotch constituencies, he hoped this Bill would receive the speedy approbation of the House. He proposed that the expense of the measure and of the new system should be borne by assessments on the various counties; and in order to lessen the burden, he would divide the counties into districts proportionably to their size and wealth. He would not ask the House to do anything for Scotland which they would not do for England, and did not seek to impose any additional burdens on the imperial Treasury. The Bill would be referred to a Select Committee upstairs, in which all the details would be most fully and carefully considered; but meantime he might state, that he would take the responsibility of the measure upon himself. The working of the plan would be placed under the direction of a board composed of members of different classes in society, and constituted in the same way as the board in England, but on a more economical scale. Those institutions which were in possession of funds or property, left by charitable individuals, would be duly credited with the money belonging to them, which would be included in the amount of the assessments. The main object of the Bill was to provide lunatic asylums for the poor; but he proposed that those lunatics in more comfortable circumstances, whose friends might place them in the asylums, should contribute a fair amount of payment for their maintenance. He hoped the Legislature would support him unanimously in carrying through this good work, which, when accomplished, would remove a great reproach and gangrene from the social system of Scotland, and be in accordance with the dictates of Christian wisdom, of humanity, and of justice.

MR. F. MACKENZIE would offer no opposition to the Bill of the learned Lord, as he was satisfied from the speech he had just heard, and from the statements conveyed to him from Scotland, that some such measure was absolutely necessary; but he could not pledge himself to the details without further consideration.

MR. HUME had no objection to the principle of the Bill, but objected to some of the details. He did not see any absolute necessity for creating any new board under the Bill, particularly as those persons who at present managed the affairs of the poor in Scotland did not seem to be very much occupied.

MR. AGLIONBY would not oppose the Bill, as it was to be sent upstairs to a Select Committee; but he wished to call the attention of the learned Lord to the great complaints which were made, particularly from Kirkcudbright and Dumfries, as to the heavy expense on the landed interest of maintaining the insane poor, for the district boasted of a most extensive and well-managed asylum, situated in the latter town, which was amply endowed with funds, and could be devoted to the reception of those who were now a burden on the landowners.

MR. FORBES wished to ask the learned Lord how many new places the proposed board would place at the disposal of the Government, and what salaries would be paid to the persons whom Government might appoint to fill the newly-created offices? He quite agreed with the hon. Member for Montrose that the country might be saved the expense of two boards, as that body which at present managed the poor-law in Scotland could easily superintend the working of this Bill.

MR. EWART gave his warm support to the general principle of the Bill. So far as he understood the opinions of the people of Scotland, he believed that such a measure as this was very much required. But he confined his support to the principle of the Bill. He begged to call the attention of the Lord Advocate to the fact, that there existed in die county of Dumfries as good a lunatic asylum as was to be found in any part of the United Kingdom. Owing to the benevolence of an individual whose name would be immortalised for the bequests which he had made in favour of that and other institutions—the asylum in Dumfries had the power greatly to extend relief to pauper lunatics. He hoped, therefore, that the right hon. and learned Lord would take into consideration the peculiar circumstances of the county of Dumfries, and, he might add, of the counties of Kirkcudbright and Wigton, and make an exception with regard to them on account of the accommodation which they already possessed.

MR. MAITLAND said, the Bill had been submitted to the consideration of every stewarty in Kirkcudbrightshire, and had received their warmest approbation: he might, he believed, say the same with respect to the county of Dumfries; he thought, therefore, that his two hon. Friends who had just spoken were in error.

SIR G. CLERK wished to tender his thanks to the right hon. and learned Lord for having introduced this measure. If it should impose any expense on parties, they would have the consolation of knowing that it was for an object of the very greatest importance. The Bill having, as he believed, been considered by every county and borough in Scotland, there was not a dissentient voice raised against it. With regard to the peculiar case mentioned by the hon. Member for Dumfries, if he gathered the explanation of the Lord Advocate correctly, that right hon. and learned Lord stated that any county which possessed means for providing for the care of pauper lunatics would have the full benefit of those means, and of course a proportionate diminution of charge would be imposed upon them. In the county of Edinburgh, where the Lord Advocate had an opportunity of stating his views about a fortnight ago, he met with unanimous support, and the people of that county expressed themselves quite ready to adopt whatever further measures might be necessary to provide for these poor suffering persons. He considered that referring the Bill to a Committee upstairs was the wisest course that could be suggested.

MR. S. WORTLEY thought that all comment upon the details of the Bill would be much better reserved for the Committee upstairs; but he was anxious to join his right hon. Friend (Sir G. Clerk) in thanking the right hon. and learned Lord for having brought forward this measure. From his connexion with the county of Bute, he was enabled to state that there were many of those poor afflicted creatures for whose benefit this Bill was intended, who were sent to the most beautiful and salubrious part of the isle of Arran; but not for the sake of the salubrity of the situation, but in order that they might be kept out of sight; and it was perfectly shocking to think of the nature of the treatment which those unhappy creatures experienced when they arrived there. He rejoiced, therefore, that the right hon. and learned Lord had introduced this measure, and he entirely approved of its being referred to a Committee upstairs; but he would suggest to the right hon. and learned Lord, that it would be unsafe to establish a system which would not secure ample control on the part of the Government.

SIR D. DUNDAS wished to add his testimony to the praise given by all parties in Scotland to his right hon. and learned Friend for the introduction of this Bill. He considered the statement made to-night could not fail of carrying conviction to every bosom as to the integrity and propriety of this measure. When he thanked his right hon. and learned Friend, he would tell him, for his comfort and consolation, that whatever might come of this measure, it was a work of charity to help those who could not thank him themselves—that it was for a class of poor unhappy people for whom they, the Members of the House of Commons—blessed with the possession of their senses—ought to be ready to do everything that could alleviate their attention.

The LORD ADVOCATE replied, and said, in reference to the case of Arran, which had been adverted to by the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Bute (Mr. S. Wortley), that it was his intention to lay the whole particulars of it before the Select Committee. It was a case of most intolerable cruelty inflicted by the parochial boards of some of the largest, most wealthy, and principal towns in the west of Scotland. It was mainly in reference to cases of that nature that he brought forward a Bill in 1840, and which was passed into a law—a Bill by which he thought he had provided that a penalty should be imposed both upon the senders and receivers of lunatics under such circumstances as the Arran case presented. He knew not how it was, but in that case the penalties were not inflicted: he wished there had been shown grounds to inflict them. He, however, knew enough of the case to say—for he had inquired into it, and he durst say that the right hon. Baronet the late Secretary of State for the Home Department (Sir James Graham) would bear him out in saying—that it was one which most satisfactorily proved that no trust or confidence could be placed in parochial authorities when the question to be attended to was one between saving expense and that of a work of humanity.