HC Deb 03 May 1848 vol 98 cc591-5

MR. HUME wished to call the attention of the Government to the fact of there being no House on Tuesday, no Member of the Government being present. He trusted that some means would be devised of securing an attendance sufficient to make a House, for the sake of public business. At present there was only one day upon which Government had not the priority. Yesterday, several important Motions stood for discussion, especially one, of which notice had been given by the on and learned Member for Oxford (Mr. Wood), and no Member of the Government was present at four o'clock.

SIR G. GREY agreed with the hon. Member that it was desirable, for the sake of public business, that the House should not adjourn for want of a sufficient attendance of Members. He had not been aware that the House would be counted out, and when he came down at half-past four he was surprised to find that a House had not been made. The Members of Her Majesty's Government were much occupied, but it was not their wish that there should be no House on Tuesday.

MR. G. BERKELEY, in order to continue the discussion, moved that the House do now adjourn. This was not the first time, he said, that a House had been prevented when there was business before it disagreeable to the Government. He had himself been canvassed at the door, and asked not to go in, as there was business disagreeable to the Government; and it was well known that a Motion stood for discussion last night which would have involved inquiry into the conduct of a noble Marquess. As the question of the ballot was approaching, he thought the Government ought to be on its guard, and at least have one or two Members always present to make a House; instead of which, they canvassed Members not to make a House. He hoped the House would not suffer questions to be got rid of by private agreements made at the door of the House.

MR. PAGE WOOD having been present yesterday, he was not open to any imputation of neglecting his duty, and he wished to take this opportunity of offering a few observations upon the subject of his Motion. He had undertaken to bring it forward solely as a matter of duty. A petition had been put into his hands, complaining of a severe grievance suffered by one-third of the electors of the borough of Stamford, and bringing a serious charge against a noble individual—the Lord Lieutenant of a county; and upon those two grounds he had been exceedingly anxious to bring the matter forward as speedily as possible. He had presented the petition on the 14th of March, and he had endeavoured to fix as early a day as he could to bring it on. The first day on which he had fixed it he had been prevented by the illness of the Speaker; and yesterday he was prevented by there being no House. In justice to the noble individual he had referred to, as well as to the parties complaining of a grievance, he was anxious to bring the question on as speedily as possible; and he thought there should have been one individual at least connected with the Government in the House when it was expected to come on. He was connected with no party; this matter had not been sought by him, but he had undertaken it from a sense of duty. It was a question of great public importance; and, therefore, though he did not wish to impede the business of the country, he had given notice to bring it on the first day the House went into a Committee of Supply.

MR. HERRIES hoped the hon. Member did not mean to be understood as insinuating that there was any indisposition, on the part of any persons in that House, to discuss the subject he had referred to, or that they were not prepared to repel the accusations made in the petition, and to protect the character of the noble individual who had been so unjustly accused. Nothing could be more unfounded than to suppose that there had been any understanding with the Government that this matter should not be brought before the House. He was anxious that it should be brought forward, and was prepared to vindicate the character of the nobleman who had been so unjustly attacked in the petition.

COLONEL SIBTHORP said, he thought the House ought to have some explanation from the right hon. Gentlemen opposite as to what they tad been about yesterday. Where had they been? How had they been employed What duties had they been engaged in? If they could not be present themselves, they had a precious lot of well-paid underlings, some of whom might have been there. He therefore thought the House had a right to know what they had been about, that none of them could attend in this House yesterday.

SIR G. GREY said, that when he received information that there was no House, he and his Colleagues were intending to come down, they having up to that time been engaged with important public business. He was quite ready to admit that the hon. Member for Oxford had used his best endeavours for the purpose of bringing his Motion under the notice of the House; and he regretted the occurrence which had occasioned the disappointment to which reference had now been made. Sufficient explanation, as he thought, had already been given on the subject, and he therefore should not further occupy the time of the House than to say that the hon. Member for Glasgow had a Motion on the Paper, and yet he never attended the sitting of the House, neither did the Member Stafford.

MR. HORSMAN thought it was hardly possible to suppose that the occurrence of yesterday was accidental. It was not the first time that such an attempt had been made by the Government—the practice was habitual and systematic; it had been resorted to the last time that he had an Ecclesiastical Motion on the Paper. It was within his own knowledge that subordinate Members of the Government went to the clubs, and told hon. Gentlemen not to go down, for that it was wished not to make a House: that course had been habitually and systematically pursued. Now, he wished to put this to the Government—independent Members of that House had hitherto enjoyed the advantage of two Mo- tion days in the week; owing to the pressure of public business they had given up one of those, and he therefore thought they had a fair claim on the Government to secure them a House upon the other day. If something of that sort were not done, the result would prove rather an impediment to, than a means of, advancing public business, for Members would bring forward their Motions on going into Committee of Supply, and the supply days would, therefore, be lost to the Government; hence the conduct of the Government in this matter would be not only unfair, but unwise.

SIR G. GREY said, the hon. Member who spoke last had asserted that the Government habitually and systematically endeavoured to prevent the attendance of a sufficient number of Members to constitute a House on those occasions when they wished to get rid of a disagreeable Motion; but he did not show that the Government succeeded, and he had given no proof whatever of the assertion which he took upon himself to make. It was, perhaps, not unworthy of notice that amongst the hon. Members who so loudly complained that no House had been made yesterday, not one of them had attended at 4 o'clock. He also could not help observing that the hon. Member for Cockermouth never lost an opportunity of endeavouring to cast a slur upon the Government, although he was wholly unable to prove that any subordinate Member of the Government had interfered in the matter. It was apparently contended by some Members that, without regard to the question whether any Government business stood on the Paper or not, Ministers were bound to make and keep a House; that certainly appeared to him a very novel addition to their duties. If an hon. Member gave notice of a Motion, and 40 Members out of 658 were not sufficiently convinced of its importance to take the trouble of coming down at 4 o'clock, he did not see how any blame could attach to the Government. The true reason that a House was not made yesterday was this, that so soon after the holidays a great many Members had not yet returned to town. He regretted the occurrence, but he did not see how any responsibility with regard to it could attach to the Government.

SIR J. WALMSLEY said, it was only fair to the hon. Member for Glasgow to state that he came down at 4 o'clock, and the only cause of his not having been included in the 27 Members present was, that he had gone up to the library and other parts of the building to search for others in order to make a House.

Motion withdrawn.