HC Deb 28 August 1848 vol 101 cc588-90

House in Committee.

On Clause 25, by which it was to be enacted that persons removing spirits in any quantity exceeding one gallon in any part of the united kingdom, and refusing to produce a proper permit or certificate, might be arrested, convicted, and on non-payment of a penalty, not exceeding 100l. and not loss than 25l., imprisoned for not more than six nor less than three calendar months.


said, be considered the punishment to be awarded under this clause was monstrous compared with the offence.


moved that the maximum penalty should not exceed 100l., and that the magistrates should have power to mitigate it as they thought fit.

The Committee divided on the question, that the words "not exceeding" be inserted:—Ayes 33; Noes 51: Majority 18.

List of the AYES.
Anstey, T. C. Callaghan, D.
Barkly, H. Carew, W. H. P.
Bentinck, Lord G. Cobden, R.
Forbes, W. O'Connell, M. J.
Greene, J. Pechell, Capt.
Hamilton, G. A. Reynolds, J.
Hardcastle, J. A. Robinson, G. R.
Henley, J. W. Salwey, Col.
Herbert, H. A. Tenison, E. K.
Hood, Sir A. Thompson, Col.
Keogh, W. Turner, E.
Knox, Col. Vyse, R. H. R. H.
Martin, J. Williams, J.
Monsell, W. Willoughby, Sir H.
Moore, G. H. Wodehouse, E.
Morris, D. TELLERS.
Muntz, G. F. Hume, J.
O'Connell, J. Duncan, G.
List of the NOES.
Abdy, T. N. Lewis, G. C.
Bellew, R. M. Lushington, C.
Berkeley, hon. Capt. Lygon, hon. Gen.
Berkeley, hon. H. F. M'Gregor, J.
Blackall, S. W. Matheson, Col.
Bowring, Dr. Maule, rt. hon. F.
Boyle, hon. Col. Milnes, R. M.
Brotherton, J. Morpeth, Visct.
Brown, W. Ogle, S. C. H.
Campbell, hon. W. F. Parker, J.
Collins, W. Pinney, W.
Cowper, hon. W. F. Price, Sir R.
Craig, W. G. Rice, E. R.
Denison, W. J. Scrope, G. P.
Divett, E. Seymer, H. K.
Douglas, Sir C. E. Seymour, Sir H.
Drummond, H. Sheil, rt. hon. R. L.
Dundas, Adm. Smith, J. A.
Grenfell, C. W. Somerville, rt. hn. Sir W.
Grey, R. W. Stanton, W. H.
Hay, Lord J. Villiers, hon. C.
Hayter, W. J. Ward, H. G.
Heywood, J. Wilson, J.
Jones, Capt. Wood, rt. hon. Sir C.
Labouchere, rt. hon. H. TELLERS.
Langston, J. H. Tufnell, H.
Lascelles, hon. W. S. Hill, Lord M.

said, that even the concession of the right hon. Gentleman as to the power of imprisonment left it in his opinion a monstrous punishment.


would have no objection to make the minimum of imprisonment one month instead of three.


was not satisfied with the way in which the penalty stood. He would therefore propose that the penalty should in all cases be mitigated as the magistrate should think fit.


hoped the noble Lord (Lord J. Russell) would grant what the Chancellor of the Exchequer refused to concede, viz., that instead of the period of imprisonment at hard labour being not more than six months, and not loss than one month, the words "not exceeding six months" should be inserted.


considered it intolerable that the power of seizure in such circumstances should be given to policemen, of whom there were about 14,000 in the country.


thought the hon. Member for Montrose had understated his case; for seizures might be made not only by policemen, but by parish constables, and even by special constables.


also complained of the powers given to policemen and constables, who had not studied the law on these points, as officers of Excise deemed it their duty to do.

The Committee divided upon the question that the word "no" in the clause, the omission of which would have made way for Mr. Hume's Amendment, that in all cases the penalty should be mitigated by the magistrate to as low an amount as he thought fit, stand part of the clause:—Ayes 56; Noes 31: Majority 25.

List of the AYES.
Abdy, T. N. Lewis, G. C.
Anson, hon. Col. M'Gregor, J.
Baring, rt. hon. Sir F. T. Maule, rt. hon. F.
Bellew, R. M. Milnes, R. M.
Berkeley, hon. Capt. Morpeth, Visct.
Blackall, S. W. Ogle, S. C. H.
Boyle, hon. Col. Parker, J.
Brotherton, J. Pinney, W.
Brown, W. Price, Sir R.
Campbell, hon. W. F. Rice, E. R.
Childers, J. W. Rich, H.
Collins, W. Romilly, Sir J.
Cowper, hon. W. F. Russell, Lord J.
Craig, W. G. Seymer, H. K.
Denison, W. J. Seymour, Sir H.
Divett, E. Sheil, rt. hon. R. L.
Douglas, Sir C. E. Shelburne, Earl of
Dundas, Adm. Smith, J. A.
Ebrington, Visct. Somerville, rt. hn. Sir W.
Grenfell, C. W. Stanton, W. H.
Grey, R. W. Talfourd, Serj.
Hawes, B. Tennent, R. J.
Hayter, W. G. Villiers, hon. C.
Henry, A. Ward, H. G.
Heywood, J. Wilson, J.
Hobhouse, T. B. Wood, rt. hon. Sir C.
Jones, Capt.
Labouchere, rt. hon. H. TELLERS.
Langston, J. H. Tufnell, H.
Lascelles, hon. W. S. Hill, Lord M.
List of the NOES.
Anstey, T. C. Hood, Sir A.
Bentinck, Lord G. Keogh, W.
Callaghan, D. Knox, Col.
Carew, W. H. P. Monsell, W.
Cobden, R. Moore, G. H.
Currie, H. Muntz, G. F.
Drummond, H. Newdegate, C. N.
Duncan, G. O'Connell, J.
Ewart, W. O'Connell, M. J.
Forster, M. Pechell, Capt.
Hardcastle, J. A. Robinson, G. R.
Henley, J. W. Salwey, Col.
Herbert, H. A. Tenison, E. K.
Thompson, Col. Wyld, J.
Williams, J. TELLERS.
Willoughby, Sir H. Hume J.
Wodehouse, E. Forbes, W.

Clause to stand part of the Bill.

The House resumed. Report to be received.