HC Deb 17 April 1848 vol 98 cc431-46

On the question that the House do resolve itself into a Committee on the Copper Ore Duties Bill,

SIR C. LEMON moved as an Amendment— That a Select Committee be appointed to inquire into the effect of the existing Duties on the importation and production of Copper Ores. He said that the theory of free trade did not condemn duties imposed for revenue when they were not injurious to trade; and if a Committee were granted, he should be able to prove that the duty on copper ore was not injurious, while it brought in a large sum yearly to the revenue of the country. This was not the time to stand up for protection of any class to the injury of the community at large; but he should be able to maintain that these duties were not in any way injurious. He understood the Chancellor of the Exchequer the other night to say that this Bill was partly founded upon the statements made to the Board of Trade; but these he should be able to prove were greatly exaggerated. He knew his right hon. Friend chiefly relied on the public and official documents; but he should not shrink from meeting the facts which they disclosed. They showed that there had been since the year 1844 a considerable falling off in the quantity of ore imported into this country from Chili, and a corresponding diminution in the amount of revenue—that there had been a falling-off in the quantity of copper sent from this country to France, and a considerable export of coal sent to Chili to be employed in the reduction of copper ores. He admitted all these facts, but he denied that they proceeded from the small duty now levied upon the import of copper ores. It was imprudent to give up a revenue of 50,000l. or 60,000l. a year, when the object which they had in view was to be obtained by other means. The whole amount of copper ores smelted in France, including the French provinces and Algiers, and its importations from all parts of the world, amounted to only 1,000 tons a year, which were capable of yielding 250 tons of copper; whilst the ordinary importation of copper into France had been 8,000 or 9,000 tons annually. It was said that we were losing our markets abroad because we were undersold there; but, if that were so, price became an important element in the consideration of this question, and that element a Committee of the House would be the fittest to consider and decide upon. He hoped the Government would accede to his Motion, as he felt satisfied that the labours of the Committee would put the House in possession of much valuable information, and enable it to le- gislate with advantage upon this important department of our trade.

The CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER would remind the House of the state of the law on the subject previously to the Tariff of 1842. Before that year all foreign copper ore was excluded from home consumption in this country, but it was allowed to be brought home and smelted in bond. The result was, that it was brought into this country, smelted in bond, and exported to foreign countries. The importation of copper ore under that law showed a constant and progressive increase. In 1838, the quantity of copper ore imported was 26,900 tons; in 1839, 30,000 tons; in 1840, 41,000 tons; in 1841, 48,000 tons; in 1842, 49,000 tons; in 1843, 55,000 tons; in 1844, 58,000 tons. The increase after the Tariff of 1842 was attributable to the fact that the new law had not, until 1845, actually come into operation in consequence of the arrangements which existed between the capitalists in this country and the producers of copper ore in Chili. The state of things in Chili was that the people of that country found it much more advantageous to send copper ore to this country to be smelted; and evidence was given before the Committee which had been appointed to inquire into this subject, that the Chili houses which had attempted to smelt the ore in Chili had been brought to ruin; and; in point of fact, smelting at the time the Tariff of 1842 came into operation was at an end there. He need not state to the House the advantages which accrued to the manufacturers of this country from the smelting of this foreign copper ore, the employment it afforded, the profits it yielded, and the stimulus which it gave to the importation of our cotton and woollen goods. By the Act of 1842 foreign copper ore was admitted for use in this country; but a duty was imposed on all copper ore brought hither. No copper ore could be smelted in bond free of duty, and again exported. No copper ore could be imported into this county from America except in British vessels. Th consequence was rise of freight, and a sensible diminution in the imports of copper ore. The smelting houses in Chili were restored, and in many European towns it was found more convenient to establish smelting houses than to come here for smelted copper; and accordingly such place were erected in Hamburgh and other cities He did not mean to say, that the smelting of copper ore was carried to any great extent in Europe; but the increased amount of copper ore imported by Hamburgh, within the last two years, was very extraordinary. In 1846, the amount of this ore imported there was 60,000 tons—in 1847, 477,000 tons; and a proportionate increase took place in the United States. He would read to the House a letter addressed to him by Her Majesty's Consul at Philadelphia (Mr. William Peter), who had been formerly a Member of that House. He was a Cornishman, and he was sure his hon. Friend (Sir C. Lemon) would place confidence in his statement. Mr. Peter said that— Philadelphia, Sept. 13, 1847. Already have two large companies been formed in this country, namely, "The Incorporated Baltimore Company,' and 'the Revere Boston Company,' who have erected furnaces, and are smelting considerable quantities of American and Cuba ores, which ores, but for our high duties, would have been all smelted in England and Wales. Other smelting companies are also talked of—in New York, New Jersey, Philadelphia, and Richmond, more particularly at the latter place, which, from its situation at the head of the Tidewater Navigation, on the James River, and from its vicinity to the coal mines, is well adapted to the purpose. The copper exported to France from this country had considerably fallen off; and from Chili the French imports of this article had considerably increased. He did not mean to say that there had been a falling-off in the gross; but there was this change—that, instead of France importing smelted copper from England, she imported it from Chili. But taking a period of three years, the quantity of smelted copper imported from England into France had considerably diminished, while the quantity imported from Chili into France had considerably increased. The quantities imported from England were, in 1845, 7,000 tons; in 1846, 4,485 tons; in 1847, 3,786 tons; from Chili, in 1845, 200 tons; in 1846, 711 tons; in 1847, 1,101 tons; from other countries, 2,257 tons; in 1846, 2,249 tons; in 1847, 2,793 tons. The necessary effect on the importation of copper ore had followed, as appeared from its rapid decrease since 1844. The quantity imported in 1844 was 58,406 tons; in 1845, 56,697 tons; in 1846, 51,637 tons; in 1847, 41,521 tons; showing, on the last of those years, a falling-off of 10,000 tons, as compared with the previous year. The duty had fallen off in the same proportion; and he felt that if he did not make a voluntary sa- crifice for the good of the trade, the loss of the trade would be risked altogether. The duty received on copper ore in 1844 was 75,200l.; in 1845, 58,646l.; in 1846, 54,056l.; in 1847, 40,964l. His hon. Friend had argued the question very much as a matter of protection. His (the Chancellor of the Exchequer's) own real belief was, that this was a parallel case to that which, on a former occasion, he brought forward with regard to the duties on the importation of foreign wool. He believed that the quantity of metal produced from the fusion of foreign copper with English copper was larger than the quantity would be if they were fused separately. So that, under the present system, the English producer was a considerable gainer in point of quantity. He believed his hon. Friend would admit that. And, in the next place, he believed that the mixture of the two metals was exceedingly advantageous in point of quality. His hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham (Mr. Muntz) would be better able to explain that question; but he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) had been informed that the fusion of the two metals led to such an improvement in the manufactured copper articles that the sale was materially increased. The price, too, was affected in this country by the price obtained in foreign countries. Taking the four years before 1842, and the four years subsequent to 1842, he found that the quantity of copper exported had increased from 57,549 tons in the first period, to 70,103 tons in the second period. Though an increase had taken place in the export of unwrought copper from 33,052 tons in the former period of four years, to 34,260 tons in the latter period of four years, the great increase had been in the export of wrought copper, which in the four years from 1838 to 1841 amounted to 24,497 tons, and which rose in the four years from 1843 to 1846 to 35,843 tons; so that the capitalists and artisans of England engaged in this department of manufacture had been materially benefited. He really thought that he hardly need trouble the House with any further statement upon this subject. He had refrained from entering upon those points on which his hon. Friend had himself admitted that there would be considerable dispute. His firm belief was, that, without entering into the question of free trade or protection, the manufacturers and workmen of this country had a direct interest in the increased importation of the raw material. He be- lieved that the English producer would be benefited by the introduction of a larger quantity of foreign copper. All these statements were made on the authority of documents of indisputable accuracy. His hon. Friend had not made out the slightest case for a Committee of Inquiry. He would not now enter into the question of the amount of the duty, as that could be better discussed when the House went into Committee. There would certainly be a slight sacrifice to the revenue; but it really was so very small that he hoped the House would not assent to any Amendment on the proposition of the Government.

MR. CAREW had never been a high protectionist; neither did he consider the rules of free trade universally applicable, and the present, he thought, an exceptional case. His confidence in free-trade doctrines had not been increased by events which had occurred in other countries; for while they were here throwing their ports open to foreign produce, their neighbours were following an opposite course. The arguments of the Chancellor of the Exchequer tended rather to lead the House back to the system which had prevailed before 1842, than to induce them to carry out the application of the principles then introduced. He hoped the House would agree to the Motion of his hon. Friend, for the labouring classes in the mining districts were peculiarly interested in this question. The House might not be aware that those classes were themselves speculators in mines to a considerable extent, and that they would be directly affected by any measure which would have a tendency to lower the value of the ore. He was sure that hon. Gentlemen would be most anxious to consider the case of these labourers, and that they would not afford any ground for the notion that those classes were not represented in that House, and that their interests were therefore neglected. He trusted, especially as an alteration of the Navigation Laws was contemplated, which would have a material effect upon the rate of freights, that the House would not hastily adopt the proposal of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, but that they would be anxious to take measures to secure from injury an important branch of the trade of this country.

MR. LABOUCHERE would feel the deepest regret if the classes referred to by the hon. Gentleman who had just sat down, and especially the Cornish miners, who had always been distinguished by their good conduct as much as by their industry and perseverance, sustained any injury from the measure proposed by his right hon. Friend; but be believed that, when the House came to consider the effects of that measure, they would feel that no apprehension of such a result need be entertained. The Chancellor of the Exchequer had told them that, in this case, he was not giving up revenue, but that revenue was leaving him; for, while the present tax ruined the trade, it dried up that source from which alone any revenue could accrue. But this was not the greatest objection which he (Mr. Labouchere) entertained to the continuance of the duties upon copper ore in their present shape. He objected to the maintenance of those duties on the ground that they were fast leading to the utter destruction of one of the most valuable and important trades of this country. When an alteration in the rate of duties on copper was proposed by the right hon. Member for the University of Oxford (Mr. Gladstone), he expressed his fears lest that measure might produce the results which bad since followed; and he implored the right hon. Gentleman not to put a stop to the power of smelting copper in bond, unless he was certain that such a measure would not divert that important branch of trade from this country. He believed that if that right hon. Gentleman were now superintending the commerce of the nation, he would be convinced that it was necessary to take one of two courses—either to revive the power of smelting copper in bond, or to admit copper ore at merely nominal duties. He considered that, of those two courses, the one taken by the Chancellor of the Exchequer was the best. He did not blame the right hon. Gentleman opposite for the experiment he had made; but he thought it was clear that they could not continue to impose the duties now levied upon foreign ore without destroying one of the most valuable branches of trade in this country. Some stress had been laid upon the burdens to which the copper miners of this country were subjected, and apprehensions had been expressed lest foreign copper ore might be introduced to a great extent, to the injury of the poor miners of Cornwall. He begged the House to remember what protection the English miners enjoyed, and which they naturally possessed from the cost of freight necessary to bring foreign ore to this country. He believed that the purest ores imported into this country from Cuba contained only ten per cent of copper; and, taking the freight at 3l. per ton, there was a protection of no less than 30l. upon every ton imported. In the case of Chilian the freight was 5l. per ton, and there was a protection of 50l. per ton in the case of ores containing ten per cent of copper; 60l. in the case of ores having seven and a half per cent of copper, and 100l. where there was five per cent of copper. This showed the large amount of protection given to this description of ore; and, unless it was meant that they should apply the principle of protection in its most extreme and aggravated form, there was no ground for maintaining it in the case of copper ore. He hoped the House would not consent to the Committee, for the appointment of which no valid reason had been given. The facts of the case were before the House; and if they should not consent to the reduction of the duties in this instance, he should despair of ever seeing any proposal to free the commercial code of this country proposed with any chance of success.

MR. ROBARTES was averse to all duties that were imposed for purposes of protection, and considered them opposed to the policy that had recently received the sanction of that House.

MR. CARDWELL wished to say a few words just to express how extremely glad he was that the time had arrived when this duty, which had been condemned by successive Governments, was at length to be abolished. It was proposed that they should send the subject to a Committee; but if they did, he would ask what possible question was to come before them? Were they to inquire whether there was likely to be a falling-off in the revenue? Why, they had had a successive, and uniform, and rapid falling-off in this branch of the revenue; and it was plainly and clearly declining from under the Chancellor of the Exchequer's feet. Were they to inquire into the import and export trade? Information on these points was already on the table of the House. What, then, could be the object of the Committee? If there was a single branch of trade in which we were snaking greater progress than another, it was the metal trade; and why was equal progress, as regarded our exports, not made in copper? It was this impolitic duty, which was a duty on the raw material. It was a duty, therefore, which pressed with peculiar aggravation; and it was one which ought especially to be done away with, because the increased consumption of that raw material led to an increased consumption of other raw materials used in the manufacture—the use of the one causing the increased consumption of the other. Had they not printed evidence to the effect that by the imposition of a duty on raw copper, they promoted smelting manufactories in Chili, in Hamburgh, and in America? But what was the interest of the Cornish miners? Why, that all the smelting establishments should be in Great Britain; because then they would become decidedly the greatest gainers. He did not remember a single commercial case in which there was so uniform an expression of opinion from all sides of the House, or in which there was so remarkable a concurrence of facts and agreement of interests. He thought, therefore, that, without a single fact to inquire into, nothing would be gained by the proposed Committee but delay. Successive Governments had admitted that it was only a question of revenue; and now, when the Chancellor of the Exchequer appeared to be able to spare the amount, he thought the sooner they consented to the abolition of the duty the better.

MR. MUNTZ agreed with the hon. Member for Liverpool, that no advantage could come of the proposed Committee, and that all that would be obtained would be a delay that must prove injurious.

MR. WYLD said, the House should bear in mind that the manufacture of copper ore was in the hands of six companies in this country, who had the most perfect monopoly that could exist in any country. They had heard of copper smitheries being established in different parts of the world, but at Swansea there were the greatest smitheries for the manufacturing of copper in the world. The hon. Member for Birmingham was greatly mistaken if he thought he should reap any advantage by the proposed reduction of duty; it would merely benefit the Swansea establishments. It might seem strange that he (Mr. Wyld), a free-trader upon general principles, should take the view he did; but in this instance his constituents thought they had a special case. There was a population of 100,000 dependent on this trade. It was said that Chili had ceased to consume a large portion of our manufactures; but that was only because the Americans had interposed to compete with us.

MR. GLADSTONE thought the hon. Member for Bodmin (Mr. Wyld) need not anticipate that the House would be surprised at his claiming protection for copper ores while he professed the general principles of free trade. There was no phenomenon more common. There were scores of gentlemen of that interesting class devoted to the principles of free trade, but supplied always with a "special case" where their constituents were concerned—always devoutly convinced that there were peculiar circumstances entitling their case to be dealt with upon principles of its own. But when it was found that nearly all these "special cases," on the test of experience being applied to them, fell under general rules, one became very incredulous as to the particular circumstances on which such cases were alleged to rest; and, in the present debate, scarcely a serious attempt had been made to establish such circumstances. The hon. Member said that there was a monopoly of smelting in this country; then everything should be done to encourage the access of the material. Another hon. Member (Mr. Carew) referred to the labourers in Cornwall interested in the mines; but he omitted to show that this proposition would be detrimental to them. It did not follow from agreeing to this measure that the average price of Cornish ores would be depreciated. The Cornish ores stood in the position of a material auxiliary to the use of foreign ores; to a considerable extent, at least, the Cornish miner was dependent upon the introduction of foreign ores, inasmuch as his own, except for the power of combining them with foreign, would not pay for the labour of raising them. The hon. Baronet (Sir C. Lemon) confined himself to an endeavour to rebut the arguments of those who contended that the smelting trade was suffering under the present system; he did not show that the proposition would be injurious to the Cornish miner. If there was any description of trade for which the English had a peculiar genius, and which was properly and specially a national trade, it was the trade in metals—a trade which every effort should be used to encourage, and in which it might be expected that the freedom which legislation might give would be turned to the best account. With respect to smelting in bond, he (Mr. Gladstone) did not at all repent having been an instrument in putting an end to that system; he should have resisted any return to it; it went to supply the foreigner, in the foreign market, with manufactured copper upon more reasonable terms than the British. He was convinced that any dispassionate person who had listened to the course of this debate, must be satisfied that the interests of the Cornish miners would not suffer under the proposed change in the law; and therefore he could not doubt that it was their duty to adopt at once the proposition of Her Majesty's Government.

LORD G. BENTINCK said, that the right hon. Gentleman who had just sat down had observed that the hon. Member for Bodmin was one of the most common phenomenon of the present day. He thought that the right hon. Gentleman was himself quite a phenomenon, though certainly not a common one. He apprehended that it was a new axiom in political economy that the greater the supply the better would be the price, and the greater the demand. He did not, like the hon. Member for Bodmin, treat this as an exceptional case. He opposed the measure of Her Majesty's Government, not because the case was an exception per se, but because it was one of a bad gang of measures of free trade. It was a measure by which it was proposed to introduce the produce of foreign industry, almost untaxed, into this country; and if ever there was a time when it was unjustifiable in Her Majesty's Ministers to make such a proposition as this, it was when the Chancellor of the Exchequer came down to the House and announced a deficiency of nearly 3,000,000l., and when he was obliged to call upon the country to submit for three years longer to the odious income-tax. The right hon. Gentleman proposed to cast away at this juncture a revenue of 40,000l. raised from foreign industry, thereby giving great encouragement and protection to the slaveowners of Cuba against the copper workers of Cornwall. But when the right hon. Gentleman would make it out that this was rather a benefit than an injury to the miners of Cornwall; and when the right hon. Gentleman the President of the Board of Trade alleged that the ore of Cuba produced from 5 to 10 per cent of metal, these statements stood in utter contradiction with those which he had received from Cornwall. [Mr. LABOUCHERE had stated that some of the ores of Cuba produced from 5 to 10 per cent of metal, but not that there were not richer ores there.] If he had not got up to set the right hon. Gentleman right, the House would have gone away with the impression that the ores of foreign countries averaged from 5 to 10 per cent of metal, for the right hon. Gentleman entered into a long calculation to show that every ton of foreign copper would give a certain amount of additional employment. Now the fact was, that on the average the ore produced in foreign countries contained 21 per cent of metal, while the ores of Cornwall averaged under eight per cent; so that the ores of Cuba and Chili were nearly threefold as rich as the ores of Cornwall. Therefore, 52,000 tons of foreign ore would furnish as much pure copper as would be produced by the annual amount of ore raised in Cornwall. He was informed that, on the average, about 150,000 tons of copper ore were annually raised in Cornwall, and these 52,000 tons of foreign ore would consequently displace the labour of all the miners of Cornwall, consisting of 21,000 families. Well, but then a piteous tale had been told about the smelting trade. Since 1842, however, the price of copper ore had fallen 12l. 5s. per ton, while the price of smelted ore had risen 6l. per ton, so that the great monopoly of Swansea smelters, out of the diminished profits of the miners of Cornwall, had cleared 18l. per ton more than they did in 1842. These were the monopolists to whose rescue they were told to come tonight, and it was to put 40,000l. a year more in the pockets of these monopolists, or at least to divide that sum among them and the foreign owners of mines in Cuba and Chili, that the House was called upon to fling to the winds 40,000l. of revenue, which the Chancellor of the Exchequer ought well to know was sufficiently needed for other purposes. For these reasons, though he needed no Committee of Inquiry, and though he was prepared to oppose the proposal of the Government whenever it came before the House, on the ground that no article of foreign produce ought to come into this country untaxed, so long as England laboured under a higher amount of taxation than she could well bear, he should vote for a Select Committee. He would prefer to meet the proposition of the Government boldly in front; but, as he presumed that the effect of defeating them, by obtaining a Select Committee, would be utterly to overthrow their scheme, he cared not whether he assailed them in front, flank, or rear, and be should therefore give his cordial support to the Motion of the hon. Baronet (Sir C. Lemon).

MR. E. TURNER said, that the Cornish miners were in favour of free trade in copper ore, because they wanted the fine foreign ore to smelt with their own inferior ore.

MR. RICARDO said, that in 1839 copper ore was allowed to be imported free of duty, and yet the produce of the Cornish mines was greater in that year than it had been since—a fact which seemed to bear out the statement of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, that Cornish ore to be made available, required to be mixed with foreign ore. The produce of the Cornish mines was 12,468 tons in 1839, 11,259 tons in 1842, 11,593 tons in 1845, and 11,820 tons in 1846. The same arguments which were now directed against the importation of foreign ore were formerly employed against the admission of foreign wool; but admitting it free of duty had had the effect of greatly increasing the consumption of British wool.

MR. HENLEY said, that the Chancellor of the Exchequer's proposition was supported by the most contradictory arguments. He thought a good case had been made out for inquiry, and he should vote for it if the House went to a division.

MR. JAMES WILSON said, that the statements made by the noble Lord himself were sufficient to induce the House to concur with the Chancellor of the Exchequer. The noble Lord had said that the average quality of the ore imported was 21 per cent of pure copper, while that of the native ore was only 8 per cent. That fact was of itself sufficient to show the impossibility of our miners competing with those of foreign countries. The noble Lord had spoken of the labourers engaged in the manufacture of copper utensils for the foreign markets; but surely if he wished to encourage native industry, he ought to allow the importation of the raw material for the employment of those persons. The noble Lord had also alluded to the monopoly which the smelters possessed; and he should have borne in mind that the proposition of the Government was to reduce the price of the very article which those smelters used. Upon these grounds he (Mr. Wilson) would support the proposition of the right hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer.

The House divided on the question, that the words proposed to be left out stand part of the question:—Ayes 102; Noes 35: Majority 67.

List of the AYES.
Abdy, T. N. Barkly, H.
Anson, hon. Col. Bellew, R. M.
Anstey, T. C. Berkeley, hon. H. F.
Bernal, R. Palmerston, Visct.
Birch, Sir T. B. Parker, J.
Bowring, Dr. Patten, J. W.
Boyle, hon. Col. Pechell, Capt.
Brotherton, J. Peel, Col.
Brown, W. Pigott, F.
Campbell, hon. W. F. Pinney, W.
Cardwell, E. Power, N.
Carter, J. B. Rawdon, Col.
Clerk, rt. hon. Sir G. Ricardo, J. L.
Clifford, H. M. Rich, H.
Cowan, C. Russell, hon. E. S.
Craig, W. G. Russell, F. C. H.
Cripps, W. Rutherford, A.
Devereux, J. T. Scholefield, W.
Douglas, Sir C. E. Seymour, Lord
Dundas, Adm. Sheil, rt. hon. R. L.
Ebrington, Visct. Shelburne, Earl of
Filmer, Sir E. Simeon, J.
Forster, M. Smith, J. A.
Fortescue, hon. J. W. Smith, J. B.
Gladstone, rt. hon. W. E. Somerville,rt. hon. Sir W.
Graham, rt. hon. Sir J. Spearman, H. J.
Greene, J. Spooner, R.
Grey, rt. hon. Sir G. Stanley, hon. E. J.
Grey, R. W. Stansfield, W. R. C.
Hawes, B. Stanton, W. H.
Heneage, E. Strickland, Sir G.
Henry, A. Stuart, H.
Hindley, C. Sullivan, M.
Hobhouse, rt. hon. Sir J. Thompson, Col.
Hodges, T. L. Thornely, T.
Jackson, W. Tollemache, hon. F. J.
Keppel, hon. G. T. Townshend, Capt.
Labouchere, rt. hon. H. Towneley, C.
Lewis, G. C. Trelawny, J. S.
Lincoln, Earl of Turner, E.
Lockhart, A. E. Urquhart, D.
Macnamara, Maj. Villiers, hon. C.
M'Neil, D. Walmsley, Sir J.
Martin, C. W. Ward, H. G.
Matheson, A. Willcox, B. M.
Melgund, Visct. Williams, J.
Moffatt, G. Wilson, J.
Morpeth, Visct. Wilson, M.
Morris, D. Wood, rt. hon. Sir C.
Muntz, G. F.
Norreys, Sir D. J. TELLERS.
O'Connell, M. J. Hill, Lord M.
Palmer, R. Tufnell, H.
List of the NOES.
Acland, Sir T. D. Henley, J. W.
Adderley, C. B. Hood, Sir A.
Baldock, E. H. Ingestre, Visct.
Bentinck, Lord G. Keating, R.
Buller, Sir J. Y. Meux, Sir H.
Cabbell, B. B. Miles, P. W. S.
Christy, S. Napier, J.
Clive, H. B. Nugent, Sir P.
Cocks, T. S. Reynolds, J.
Coles, H. B. Robartes, T. J. A.
Colvile, C. R. Seymer, H. K.
Deedes, W. Stafford, A.
Dod, J. W. Talbot, C. R. M.
Dodd, G. Tenison, E. K.
Dunne, F. P. Vivian, J. E.
Forbes, W. Wyld, J.
Fox, R. M. TELLERS.
Fuller, A. E. Lemon, Sir C.
Galway, Visct. Carew, W. H. P.

House in Committee.

The CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER moved— That, in lieu and instead of the Duties of Customs now payable in respect of the articles enumerated in the Schedule hereunto annexed, upon their importation into the United Kingdom, there shall be levied, collected, and paid, the rates of duty specified in the said Schedule:—Copper ore, 1s. per ton; regulus of copper, 1s per ton; old copper, fit only to be manufactured, 2s. 6d. per ton; unwrought copper, viz., in bricks or pigs, rose copper; and all cast copper, 2s. 6d. per ton; copper part wrought, viz. bars, rods, or ingots, hammered or raised, 2s. 6d. per ton; copper in plates, and copper coin, 2s. 6d. per ton; pig and sheet lead, 2s. 6d. per ton.

The Committee divided on a Motion to report progress:—Ayes 13; Noes 77: Majority 64.

List of the AYES.
Baldock, E. H. Fox, R. M.
Brotherton, J. Hood, Sir A.
Buller, Sir J. Y. Miles, P. W. S.
Carew, W. H. P. Napier, J.
Dod, J. W. Wyld, J.
Dodd, G. TELLERS.
Dunne, F. P. Bentinck, Lord G.
Forbes, W. Henley, J. W.
List of the NOES.
Acland, Sir T. D. O'Connell, M. J.
Anstey, T. C. Palmer, R.
Barkly, W. Palmerston, Visct.
Bellew, R. M. Parker, J.
Berkeley, hon. H F. Patten, J. W.
Birch, Sir T. B. Pechell, Capt.
Boyle, hon. Col. Pigott, F.
Brown, W. Power, N.
Campbell, hon. W. F. Reynolds, J.
Cardwell, E. Ricardo, J. L.
Christy, S. Robartes, T. J. A.
Clerk, rt. hon. Sir G. Russell, F. C. H.
Cowan, C. Rutherfurd, A.
Craig, W. G. Scholefield, W.
Cripps, W. Seymer, H. K.
Douglas, Sir C. E. Sheil, rt. hon. R. L.
Dundas, Adm. Smith, J. B.
Ebrington, Visct. Somerville,rt. hon. Sir W.
Fortescue, hon. J. W. Spearman, H. J.
Graham, rt. hon. Sir J. Spooner, R.
Greene, J. Stuart, H.
Grey, rt. hon. Sir G. Sullivan, M.
Grey, R. W. Talbot, C. R. M.
Hawes, B. Tenison, E. K.
Henry, A. Thompson, Col.
Hindley, C. Thornely, T.
Hobhouse, rt. hon. Sir J. Towneley, C.
Hodges, T. L. Townshend, Capt.
Jackson, W. Turner, E.
Keppel, hon. G. T. Urquhart, D.
Labouchere, rt. hon. H. Walmsley, Sir J.
Lincoln, Earl of Ward, H. G.
Lockhart, A. E. Wilcox, B. M.
M'Neill, D. Williams, J.
Melgund, Visct. Wilson, J.
Morpeth, Visct. Wilson, M.
Morris, D. Wood, rt. hon. Sir C.
Muntz, G. F. TELLERS.
Norreys, Sir D. J. Tufnell, H.
Nugent, Sir P. Hill, Lord M.

Resolutions agreed to.

House resumed.

House adjourned at One o'clock.