POOR RELIEF (IRELAND) BILL. (Hansard, 22 March 1847)

§ MR. G. A. HAMILTON
said, it was the object of the Amendment of which he had given notice, to vest the appointment of the relieving officer in the Poor Law Commissioners, instead of the board of guardians. He was free to confess that, generally, he was indisposed to divest the board of guardians of any authority, and vest it in the Commissioners; but it was to be borne in mind that they were entering upon a new experiment, which being one admitted to be fraught with danger, and to require in its trial the greatest caution, it was obvious that its success or failure would depend mainly on the relieving officer, who, it was proposed, should be invested with large powers; it was very desirable he should be free from local influences on either side—guardians might press upon him on the one side, and there might be a pressure from without on the other. It was, therefore, he thought, desirable that this office should be strictly Ministerial, and that he should be appointed and be removable by the Commissioners.

§ MR. W. S. O'BRIEN
hoped the Government would not assent to the Amendment proposed by his hon. Friend. He had a strong objection to any alteration which would render the appointment in a less degree popular, and increase the centralization which already was too prevalent.

§ SIR G. GREY
could not consent to the Amendment.

MR. DILLON BROWNE
was not surprised that such a proposition should come from the hon. Member. Any proposition likely to impair the utility of the Bill might well come from him, and those around him.

§ MR. SHAW
said, it was the object of his Colleague to propose, subsequently, a clause which would sanction the appointment of a Committee for the purpose of administering out-door relief, and with this view to make the relieving officer merely Ministerial. It should not be forgotten that in Ireland, perhaps, in some places a relieving officer might be exposed to personal danger, if he refused to give relief to those who applied to him. He supported the Amendment of his hon. Friend.

§ MR. G. A. HAMILTON
said, no hon. Member should provoke him to use a single word in the discussion on this Bill which might indicate any party feeling. He would not press his Amendment to a division.

§ MR. J. H. HAMILTON
said, it would be very desirable that boards of guardians should be empowered to take ground near workhouses, of which to make burial grounds for the inmates—a fearful mortality had already taken place in some workhouses, and burials had taken place to a great extent within the precincts; this was very deplorable.

§ MR. LABOUCHERE
intimated, that a measure was in contemplation for this purpose.

§ MR. G. A. HAMILTON
said, provision should be made to guard the interests of dispensaries. He could not object that in unions or electoral districts, where there were no dispensaries, the Commissioners might have power to appoint medical officers; but the appointment should be confined to those districts, and the cost be imposed on them.

§ SIR G. GREY
would consider the suggestion, but thought the 13th Clause made provision for it.

§ MR. G. A. HAMILTON
proposed an Amendment, constituting a Committee in each electoral division, consisting of the guardians and two of the highest rate- 317 payers.He proposed that they should meet once a week, or more frequently if necessary; that the relieving officer should be their servant; that all relief out of the workhouse in each electoral division should be given under their orders; that the Chairman should have charge of the funds, and that in case of sudden or urgent distress, the relieving officer might obtain an order from the Chairman or any two members of the Committee. He hoped the Government would not object to this Amendment.

§ MR. SMITH O'BRIEN
agreed to the principle of the clause, but not to its details.

§ SIR G. GREY
could not consent to it. The efficiency of the Bill would be impaired by it.

§ MR. G. A. HAMILTON
could only warn the House what they were doing. They were constituting an officer with almost unlimited power of giving relief—they were about to give him funds, and a discretion to give relief in what were called sudden and urgent cases; but who was to judge of the suddenness or urgency of those cases? Why, the relieving officer. He feared those cases would be more frequent and numerous than hon. Members supposed.

§ MR. POULETT SCROPE
said, he thought the clause was not sufficiently compulsory on the relieving officer. As he would hold his appointment from the boards of guardians, it was likely that, in many cases, he might be inclined to neglect his duty. In England the overseer was bound by law to give relief in case of sudden emergency. The clause in the English Act, not only empowered but required the overseer to give relief in such cases; and if he did not do so, a justice of the peace could give an order for relief, and the overseer became liable to a penalty of 5l. for the first offence, 20l. for the second offence, and to imprisonment with hard labour for the third offence. He would wish that after the words "Shall have power to give," they should insert the words "And shall give," in the tenth line of the clause.

§ SIR G. GREY
said, that the 13th Clause of the Bill, which defined the duty of the overseers, would meet the objections of the hon. Member.

MR. M. J. O'CONNELL
suggested, that it would be better to adjourn the Committee on so important a clause, as the hour was so late.

LORD J. RUSSELL
would consent to the Motion, in the hope that hon. Members who had notices on the Paper would postpone them, in order to enable the House to dispose of this Bill.