HC Deb 17 July 1847 vol 94 cc505-6

House in Committee on the Ecclesiastical Jurisdiction Amendment Bill.

SIR J. GRAHAM

wished to have a pledge from the right hon. Baronet (Sir G. Grey) that a comprehensive measure respecting ecclesiastical jurisdiction would be introduced early next Session. He consented to this Bill only upon the understanding that it was a temporary measure, limited to one Session.

SIR G. GREY

said, he proposed the Bill only as a temporary measure. Considering the number and magnitude of the questions they would have to deal with, he must abstain from giving a positive pledge that early next Session he would bring in a comprehensive measure respecting the ecclesiastical courts. During the last two or three days he had drawn up a list of various subjects to be considered early next Session, and he had been obliged to turn over on a second page of the paper. The right hon. Baronet, therefore, must he satisfied with the assurance that it should be one of the first measures brought before the new Parliament.

SIR J. GRAHAM

said, Lord Cottenham in the other House, and the right hon. Baronet in this, had held him (Sir J. Graham), when in office, very close as to the introduction of a comprehensive measure relating to the ecclesiastical jurisdiction; and he not only gave a pledge, but he had twice introduced a Bill, which he made as comprehensive as he could, and had pressed it as strongly as he could; and he pledged himself to give the right hon. Baronet all the assistance in his power. He admitted the difficulty of legislating upon this subject as to bona notabilia and other matters; and perhaps the continuance of the grievances existing under the present state of the ecclesiastical courts might have the good effect of serving as a fulcrum to obtain an improvement of that jurisdiction.

MR. NEWDEGATE

observed, that the right hon. Baronet seemed to wish to enact the part of a legislative Jack Sheppard, using grievances as a sort of crowbar. He deprecated such a system of legislation as that of prolonging grievances in order to use them as a fulcrum to force, perhaps, a violent change.

LORD R. GROSVENOR

assured the right hon. Baronet that he should have every assistance in his power, though he could not answer for his Colleague (the Attorney General.)

The ATTORNEY GENERAL, with reference to the allusion made to him by the noble Lord, admitted that he had opposed the Bill of the right hon. Baronet (Sir J. Graham); but he had profited by subsequent inquiries and consideration, and he hoped the Bill which would be introduced would satisfy everybody.

SIR J. GRAHAM

said, if the measure was in so forward a state as to entitle the hon. and learned Gentleman to say it would be satisfactory to everybody, why could not the right hon. Baronet give a pledge that it should be introduced early next Session? His Bills had encountered much resistance from influential persons at Chester, and, by some mysterious influence on both sides of the House, they had been defeated. Now, however, the hon. and learned Gentleman (the Attorney General) representing Chester, and the noble Lord who had also represented Chester, and was now connected with Middlesex, were going to give to the right hon. Baronet the assistance which had been denied to him. He hoped that the Bill which was to please everybody would be one of the first measures introduced next Session.

MR. B. ESCOTT

said, as long as measures were brought in, which, on pretence of being for the improvement of the ecclesiastical jurisdiction, were nothing but a Doctors Commons' job, they would be still opposed, and opposed with success; but if the right hon. Baronet brought in a Bill for the thorough reform of abuses in those courts, and which was not a Doctors Commons' job, he should have his support, and would receive the thanks of every member of the community.

Bill passed through the Committee.

The House resumed. Report to be received.

House adjourned at Three o'clock.