§ MR. J. O'CONNELLregretted that he was compelled to interfere with the immediate business of the House; but he believed there was an absolute necessity that he should call the attention of the Government for a short time to the condition of Ireland. He was aware of the opportunities which would be offered in the course of the next fortnight of discussing the present position of that country; but he hoped that his anticipatory remarks would have the effect of inducing the House to take into consideration how far measures of relief of a more comprehensive character than those yet introduced, were called for to alleviate the distress generally existing throughout Ireland. He would not enter into details or particulars, nor would he expose himself to the charge so frequently brought against Irish Members, that their statements were exaggerations. His object was to impress upon the Government the great danger there impended of disease and pestilence following in the wake of famine in Ireland. It had been found that fever invariably attended what he might call the triennial famines there; and as the distress now exceeded in extent and intensity everything which they had known before, they could only expect that typhus fever, in its worst and most malignant form, would shortly appear. It should be remembered they could not stop the tide of pauper emigration from Ireland into England; and that being so, they were bound to take into account the probability 540 of the pestilence spreading to this country, and carrying desolation to the highest and most sheltered ranks. All medical writers agreed in their estimate of the certainty of famine being accompanied by fever. He had been shocked to learn that in influential quarters in this country, the horrible doctrine was held, that the present famine in Ireland would be attended with desirable results, because in proportion as the food of the people was diminished, the population of Ireland would be diminished in the same ratio. He could not conceive it possible that so horrid a doctrine should be held by any one; but he had been informed that it was in reality entertained in some quarters in this country. He must say with reference to the poor-law measure for Ireland, which had been introduced to the House, that if it was the determination of Government and the House to force such a poor law upon them, then he and many other Irish Members would be willing to give up their opposition to that measure, though he saw in the papers of that morning, that at a meeting in the county of Mayo, the proposal of a poor rate was regarded as "a mockery and an insult" to their misery. But even if it was an insult cast upon them, still, at the present juncture, when the public purse was necessarily so heavily straitened, he, as an Irish proprietor, and as one of the representatives from that country, would not oppose a poor law, provided that at the same time Government, and that House, and the people of this country, were prepared to give their utmost co-operation to provide relief for the distress of Ireland. He wondered that that House, after so much had been said about the inactivity of the Irish proprietors, did not make a call upon every person connected with property in Ireland to go over at once to discharge the duties connected with that property. By this means they would create something like a natural and wholesome expenditure of money in Ireland. If they could get the rich proprietors of Ireland in that country only for a period of six months, depend upon it their own interests would make them set their ingenuity to work to provide actual relief for the people around them. He held it to be a neglect of duty, on the part of that House and the English people, that they did not call upon the proprietors of Ireland to give at least six months of their time to that country. He begged to press this idea upon the attention of the House; but in 541 any case he trusted that the measures which were in contemplation by Government for the relief of Ireland, would be brought forward without delay, so that the Irish Members might be allowed to repair to those localities in Ireland where distress most prevailed, there to perform the duties which devolved upon them at such a crisis.
§ MR. LABOUCHEREwas not aware that it was the intention of the hon. Member for Kilkenny to take this opportunity to discuss the subject of famine in Ireland; and he had so frequently and so recently addressed the House on this subject, that he trusted he should be excused if he did not enter into it at large on the present occasion. His hon. Friend had stated, that he was chiefly moved to bring this question before the House, because he had heard of an opinion, entertained in some quarters, that it was desirable, on system, to allow the present famine to reduce the numbers of the people of Ireland. The hon. Gentleman justly denounced such a doctrine as a horrible doctrine. He knew not to what quarter it was the hon. Gentleman referred. He could only say he hoped it was not to Her Majesty's Government, for they, whether their efforts to provide for the wants of the people had been judicious or not, had, at least, made the most enormous exertions to cope with the famine in Ireland. He hoped the hon. Gentleman did not mean the Imperial Parliament, for he thought any one who had attended to the discussions of that House during the present Session, could not have failed to observe the great assistance, which, without the slightest reference to party differences, the House had given to the efforts of Government to cope with that famine. He hoped he did not refer to Her Majesty's English or Scotch subjects, as there was abundant proof in those voluntary contributions that had poured in to relieve the sufferings of their Irish brethren—that there was among the Christian and humane people of England an earnest and anxious desire to do all that lay in their power to relieve those sufferings. He regretted to hear that so horrid a doctrine should have prevailed in any quarter; and he also regretted that his hon. Friend should have thought right to advert to it on the present occasion. The hon. Gentleman had stated that he was afraid that unless some measures were taken to furnish the people of Ireland with more solid food, injurious consequences to the health of the population would follow. He could 542 assure the hon. Gentleman that this subject—the best mode of affording relief—was under the daily and anxious attention both of the Government, and of the relief committees that were sitting in Dublin, for the purpose of applying the means provided by Governmnnt; and he might observe, that a communication had been received from Sir J. Burgoyne, stating that it would be necessary to forward a certain quantity of biscuit to be prepared for every danger and every emergency that might occur. He would only entreat the hon. Gentleman and other Irish Members to believe, that all these details were constantly examined, and constantly watched with the greatest anxiety; and he could assure the House that the exertions made by Government were most unremitting. He had just been informed, in a communication from his hon. Friend the Secretary for the Admiralty, that 58,000lb. of biscuit were every day sent to Ireland, manufactured in one single yard—the Clarence yard at Portsmouth—and he might state that there were steam-boats constantly communicating between the dockyards of England and the ports of Ireland, conveying provisions to meet the dreadful destitution that now prevailed in that country. The depth and extent of that destitution he never thought to conceal or disguise from that House. It was his duty, every day, to read the accounts which the post brought him from Ireland of the dreadful destitution, accompanied with the most revolting and distressing details, which prevailed in Ireland; and it was utterly impossible for him to attempt to disguise the impressions these things produced on his mind, or to conceal the frightful results that famine was producing in that country. All he would say was this, that he feared there was a disposition very greatly to overrate the powers of the Government in this matter. He would assure the House, however, that that power, such as it was, had been exerted, and would continue to be exerted, to the utmost. He thought the fact, that his noble Friend the First Lord of the Treasury was at that moment engaged in negotiating a loan of 8,000,000l. for the purpose of alleviating the pressure of this calamity, was a proof that the Government had not shrunk from their duty to Ireland. But he did not believe that, make what exertions they might, they should be able to prevent great misery and great misfortune. All he said was, that these exertions had been, were now, and 543 would be, continued; and he trusted that, in making them, they would receive the earnest co-operation of those classes in Ireland, by whose exertions, after all, much more could be done than by the exertions of any Government whatever. He agreed with the hon. Member for Kilkenny, that Ireland had a claim upon the United Kingdom for co-operation and support. In his opinion, that co-operation had been cordially and cheerfully given; and he could not accept for Government the compliment which the hon. Member for Kilkenny had given them, that they were in advance of the country on this subject. He believed that the people of England and Scotland went along with the Government on this question, and that they also entertained a feeling on this subject, which, he must say, he thought a just one, viz., that they thought they had a right to expect that in Ireland herself, according to her means and resources, there should be exertions made suitable to the occasion. There was one subject more. His hon. Friend had called his attention to the necessity of devising means of arresting disease, which always accompanied famine. With respect to that point, he assured his hon. Friend that every means in the power of Government would be employed with that object. The Board of Health was always in communication with all parts of the country, and devised such means, in connexion with the Lord Lieutenant, as were calculated to meet the disease and suffering which, he was afraid, always prevailed when there was a great scarcity in Ireland. He would conclude with repeating his assurance that the most anxious attention of the Government was demoted to the whole subject, with a view of mitigating to the utmost of their power, the sufferings of the people.