§ MR. T. DUNCOMBEwished the right hon. the Secretary of State for the Home Department would allow him to ask a question relative to the returns for a copy of a report made by the superintendent of convicts, to Her Majesty's Principal Secretary of State for the Home Department, respecting the treatment of convicts in the hulks at Woolwich, moved for by the Under Secretary (Sir W. Somerville). He wished to know whether that report was made in consequence of the statement he had made in that House, respecting the treatment of the convicts at Woolwich, about a month since. He hoped, when the return was laid on the Table, that it would be accompanied by a copy of the letter addressed by the right hon. Baronet (Sir G. Grey) to the superintendent of convicts, on which the report was founded. He also wished to ask the Secretary of State if he had observed that a coroner's inquest was recently held at Woolwich on two unfortunate convicts, and that the coroner and Mr. Bossy stepped out of their way at that inquest to investigate certain charges which he had thought it his duty to make in his place in Parliament against the surgeon of that establishment. In the middle of this investigation, Mr. Carttar, the coroner for West Kent, suddenly, as he was informed, called for Mr. Bossy, and put certain questions to him as to his treatment of some prisoners who had died 450 on board the hulks. One of the jurymen, as he understood from persons who were present, asked if the jury were to inquire into the case of death before them, or into past cases, and Mr. Carttar then stated he was in the House of Commons when the hon. Member for Finsbury made certain charges against the surgeon of the establishment—that he felt these charges were false—and that his great object was to call and acquit Dr. Bossy, if he could. There was then a sort of mock trial between Mr. Carttar and Mr. Bossy—the latter being the only witness called. Now, not to say anything of the irregularity of the proceedings, and to pass over the turning of a coroner's inquest into a court of investigation of charges made in that House, he would just say—and he would say it advisedly—that Mr. Carttar was the last person in the world whom he would wish to appoint as investigator or judge, if he wanted a fair and honest investigation, and that Mr. Bossy was the very last person he would call upon as a witness to inquire into charges made against himself. He had received several communications lately, from which he understood that complaints were made against him for only half-stating his case as to the cruelty with which these unfortunate men were treated. He was shocked to find that on the Saturday after his speech, Mr. Capper—"young Mr. Capper" as he was called on board the hulks—who was a grocer in the Strand—went down to Woolwich, and persecuted, and bullied, and intimidated those unfortunate convicts who had, as Mr. Capper thought, given him (Mr. Duncombe) the information he had laid before the House. Mr. Capper stripped some of them and took away their pencils and papers, and on Saturday last visited them again, and acted in the same way. As to the investigation before the coroner's inquest, he could only say he had never heard of some of the people alluded to there, and had never mentioned the names of others; but passing over the irregularity that had been committed, he thought it due to himself to say he was prepared to prove all and even more than he had stated as to the treatment of the convicts, if the House would give him a Committee of Inquiry, or if the Government would give him a commission to investigate the matter fairly and impartially. He wished to know if the Secretary of State would lay on the Table, along with those returns, his instructions to the superintendent, and immediately put the House 451 in possession of the annual report of the superintendent of the convicts at Woolwich, as he had the power to do, and as he ought to have done. Under the Act, the superintendent's report should be made half yearly to the Home Office, and annually to Parliament immediately after it had assembled. He would like to see it as soon as possible. It ought to have been laid before the House some time ago.
§ SIR G. GREYbegged to inform the hon. Member that the day after the discussion as to the treatment of convicts at Woolwich took place in the House, he felt it his duty to address a letter to Mr. Capper, inclosing him one of the morning papers which contained a report of some statements said to have been made by an hon. Member of the House, and calling on him, under the authority of the Act, to furnish him with a full report respecting all the statements contained in the paper, so far as he could investigate them. He had since received a report in compliance with that letter, and wishing to put the House in possession of it, the Under Secretary of State had made the Motion to which the hon. Member referred. As to the annual report presented by Mr. Capper, he had ascertained it had not been presented to the House. He was sorry the hon. Member had made the observations which had fallen from him respecting Mr. Carttar. The hon. Member appeared better informed as to what had taken place at the inquest than he was, as he had no information on the subject except from the public papers. It occurred to him, on reading those accounts, that Mr. Carttar had exercised a wise discretion—after the statements which had been made respecting the treatment of the convicts—in calling on some of the most eminent medical men in London to give evidence with respect to the course of treatment which had been adopted, and to sift the circumstances which had attended the death of those convicts. As to the general character and conduct of Mr. Carttar, he had no information. The hon. Member might or might not be justified in speaking of him as he had done; but he (Sir G. Grey) had no authority to investigate the charges preferred against him by the hon. Member.