HC Deb 04 February 1847 vol 89 cc846-8

On the Order of the Day for going into Committee of the whole House,

VISCOUNT CLEMENTS

called the attention of the House to a recent letter of the right hon. Gentlemen the Secretary for the Home Department, for the purpose of entering his protest against the police having anything to do with the relief committees. It would be to take them from their proper duties to put them to others for which they were unfitted.

MR. LABOUCHERE

said, that in the letter referred to it was announced that the head of the constabulary force in Ireland should form one of the central superintending committee; and he would add, that that appointment had been made by the Government, not merely because, as the head of the constabulary, he must necessarily be a most useful and important member of that committee, but also because the character of Colonel M'Gregor stood so high in Ireland, he was so generally respected, as to render it unnecessary for him (Mr. Labouchere) to pass any eulogium upon him.

VISCOUNT CLEMENTS

disclaimed any intention of saying anything touching on Colonel M'Gregor's character, of whom no person, either in or out of the House, could entertain a higher opinion than he did.

The Order of the Day read. House in Committee of the whole House.

The CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER

moved— That provision be made out of the Consolidated Fund of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, for Advances, not exceeding 300,000l. by way of Loan to the Relief Commissioners appointed in pursuance of any Act for the temporary relief of Destitute Persons in Ireland. The right hon. Gentleman stated, that the sums to be applied to the relief of the poor consisted partly of money raised by rates, and partly of subscriptions; but, as the collection of those rates was not likely to be speedy, it was proposed to advance the money till they were collected. There would be a subsequent clause in the Bill, authorizing the whole grant, which he proposed to move from time to time in Committee of Supply during the Session.

MR. P. SCROPE

said, as this money was to be secured on the rates, the collection of which depended on the exertions of the Poor Law Commissioners, who were to have a power to supersede the boards of guardians if they did not collect them, and to appoint paid boards of guardians; and as he had a very strong opinion that the conduct of the Commissioners as to the collection of the rates had been very lax, particularly in the Castlebar union, where the people died in great numbers, because the rates were not collected; he wished to know whether the present Commissioners were to carry the Act into execution, or whether there was to be any alteration before the Bill came into operation.

SIR G. GREY

said, it was not intended to make any alterations before the Act came into operation; but he hoped that the Act would pass immediately, and come into operation in a very short time. The power given to the Commission by this Bill to dissolve the boards of guardians in certain cases was one they did not now possess; and in the Castlebar case they must have gone through the intermediate process of another election, so that they could not have had a paid board of guardians in less than two months. The provisions of this Bill gave them the power of so appointing them at once.

MR. P. SCROPE

inquired whether, in case of delay, the Commissioners were responsible to the right hon. Gentleman, or to Parliament. The right hon. Gentleman's recent letter seemed to say that they would be responsible to Parliament.

SIR G. GREY

said, the hon. Gentleman had misunderstood the letter, which disclaimed on the part of the Government the right to prescribe to the Poor Law Commissioners the mode in which they should discharge the functions vested in them by law; but he had never intended to say that the Commissioners were responsible directly to Parliament. They were, however, removable by the Crown; and if the Government thought that they failed in their duty, it would be for them to advise their dismissal.

VISCOUNT CLEMENTS

inquired what means had been used to provide boilers?

The CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER

said, a number had been sent out in the Admiralty steamers, and a great number of boiling pots belonging to the Ordnance Department had been put at the disposal of the relief committees.

Resolution agreed to. House resumed, and adjourned at Twelve o'clock.