NEW PALACE OF WESTMINSTER. (Hansard, 17 December 1847)

§ MR. OSBORNE
was sorry to be obliged to oppose anything proposed by the hon. Baronet; but he considered he would not be doing his duty to the country if he permitted an individual Member of Parliament, however respectable, to propose a Select Committee, of which the great majority of the House could not approve. He had said, the other night, that a job had been effected in this business. He had no intention in saying so, of hurting the feelings of Mr. Barry or of the most sensitive Commissioners of the Woods and Forests; but since that time he had discovered that the affair resolved itself into a charge of a graver nature, inasmuch as in the report of the Commission appointed by the House of Lords, in 1844, he found that Mr. Barry was distinctly charged with having broken his contract, and laid out sums of money without the sanction of Parliament. He would not, at that late hour, trouble the House with the evidence of this, but would content himself, 1402 in the meantime, with opposing the Committee until they obtained some further information on the subject.

§ VISCOUNT MORPETH
had suggested to the hon. Member for Oxford (Sir R. H. Inglis) whether, under the circumstances, it might not be better to delay the appointment of the Committee till after Christmas; but it seemed to be the general wish that they should constitute the Committee at present. The returns which had been moved were prepared, and would be laid on the table of the House on Monday next. He hoped the House would, in the meantime, accede to the appointment of the Committee.

§ DR. BOWRING
thought that the Committee should not be nominated until after the documents connected with the subject were presented to the House.

§ MR. M. MILNES
said, that if the architect were to be bullied, and unnecessarily limited as to time and expense, it would be impossible to expect a work of art worthy of the age and country. He maintained that no work of art of the same magnitude had ever advanced more rapidly than this had done.

§ MR. AGLIONBY
said, the subject was one rather for discussion in that House, than for inquiry before a Committee. At all events the Committee should be postponed till a later period, until they had seen the returns. It had been stated, that although the estimates did not amount to 800,000l., the expenditure had already been l,500,000l. When a statement to this effect was made last night, he understood the noble Lord (Lord Morpeth) not to call in question the accuracy of the figures; and he should like to hear from the noble Lord, if the statement was incorrect, why he had not last night corrected it? No one could do a greater benefit to Mr. Barry, in his opinion, than furnish a correct statement of the amount expended on the new buildings.

§ MR. WAKLEY,
seeing no prospect of this matter being brought to a termination that night, would move that the debate be adjourned. There were charges made, not only of large and uncalled-for expenditure, but of serious departures from the original plans. The noble Lord (Lord Morpeth) had promised to lay further information on the table of the House; and he thought that information should be before them, and that a full discussion should take place previous to the appointment of the Com- 1403 mittee. He, therefore, moved the adjournment of the debate.

§ VISCOUNT MORPETH
could state, on the authority of the architect, that the original estimate was 707,000l., and that the expenditure on the works comprised in that estimate was only 808,000l.

The EARL of LINCOLN
hoped that the most searching investigation would be made into the matter, because he was sure that many of the charges made by hon. Members would turn out to be wholly groundless. Anything more unfair than the course adopted by hon. Members opposite, he had never witnessed in that House, especially as their charges had been directed against a professional man, whose reputation was as dear to him as that of any hon. Gentleman's could be. He knew the keen sense of honour which influenced the conduct of Mr. Barry; and he was confident that none of the accusations brought against him could be substantiated. It was most improper that almost on the last day of the adjournment, and when six weeks must elapse before any answer could be made in that House, serious charges against Mr. Barry should be brought forward. If the appointment of the Committee was to be postponed, why were not the charges postponed also? The noble Lord had promised that full facts should be laid before the House, and when those facts were brought forward they would be able to judge of the whole case. It would be seen from what he had said that he had no wish to stifle this inquiry. He was perfectly sure that Mr. Barry, though he had had no conversation with him on the subject, and had not met him, except by accident in the street, for two years, would also be anxious for inquiry. Last night the hon. Member for Middlesex (Mr. Osborne) had made what he called a light charge, and he said he was prepared to make one infinitely stronger; that he was able to prove that Mr. Barry had expended large sums of money in buildings unsanctioned by the House of Commons. The hon. Member for Bolton (Dr. Bowring) had followed up this statement with a similar one, to the effect that Mr. Barry had done this without the sanction either of the House or the office of Woods and Forests. Now, similar charges were brought against Mr. Barry in 1844, and they were investigated by Committees both of the House of Lords and the House of Commons. The report of the Committee of the Lords he had not read; but he found that the Commons' Committee, in 1404 which there were Gentlemen who showed that they acted with great suspicion towards Mr. Barry, after a most minute investigation came to a deliberate conclusion completely exonerating Mr. Barry. He did not say that Mr. Barry had literally kept to every item of the plan laid before the House; but it was distinctly proved that every alteration involving any expenditure of money was laid before the Commissioners and reported to the Treasury, so that it had the proper sanction enforced by the House. He would not have made that statement had he not thought it called for in fairness towards an honourable gentleman, a member of an honourable profession. Would it not be just to Mr. Barry that this discussion should cease—that the Motion and appointment of the Committee should be postponed till after the recess, when the documents promised by the noble Lord should be laid before the House, and Mr. Barry have an opportunity of making any explanations which might be thought necessary? No Commissioner of Woods and Forests was a whit less responsible than Mr. Barry; and being himself involved in those charges, he was anxious, for his own sake, for Mr. Barry's, and for that of all parties, that the charges should be fully investigated.

§ MR. OSBORNE
was ready to accede to the noble Lord's proposals. He had no personal knowledge of Mr. Barry; he had come forward on public grounds; but it was the present Government and the past that he had singled out. He was prepared to prove that the Commissioners had not discharged their duties, and that the office ought to be abolished.

§ VISCOUNT MORPETH
was glad the hon. Gentleman was prepared to postpone further proceedings. Certain expenses apart from the building, such as purchases, were unprovided for; but he rejoiced, at least, in one result of the discussion, that the hon. Member for Middlesex had pronounced an unequivocal acquittal of Mr. Barry.