STATE OF PUBLIC BUSINESS.

HC Deb 17 March 1846 vol 84 cc1121-5

MR. A. STAFFORD O'BRIEN

, on reading the Order of the Day, wished to say a few words on the present state of Public Business. On the 27th January, the First Lord of the Treasury had announced certain changes, particularly affecting the agricultural interest. The right hon. Baronet had said, that he intended to accompany those changes with provisions which would not exactly give compensation, but which he firmly believed would advance the welfare of that body. It was now the 17th of March, and only one of the measures had been laid on the Table on Friday last, none of the rest had been seen. He did not mean to speak of it as a question of free trade or of protection, but simply as a matter of public business. The right hon. Baronet had stated among other things, that his opinion had undergone a change; he was understood at the time to refer to the doctrine of protection, not to the mode of conducting the business of the country. If such a course had been pursued by a Government strong in the confidence of its friends, and therefore firm in its tenure of office, there would still be reason to complain; but when the right hon. Baronet must be aware that the class most interested in the change was one which would no longer trust him, even from hour to hour, when he must know, too, that his tenure of office depended solely on the will and pleasure of the noble Lord the Member for London—the right hon. Baronet could not wonder that after the lapse of seven weeks those who were connected with the land should feel it their duty to come forward and inquire how much longer the suspense was to be continued. How long would it be before the right hon. Baronet introduced the Bills which he said were not to follow, but to accompany, his great commercial measure? What latitude did the right hon. Baronet give to the word "accompany?" Did he understand by it that an opinion might be pronounced upon the principle of one measure before the so-called accompanying measures were even laid upon the Table? In reference to the Law of Settlement Bill, there had yet been no discussion upon it; and in reference to the Drainage Bill, the right hon. Baronet had talked of a period of three years in connexion with the details of it. Whether the sum specified by the right hon. Baronet was to have reference to that Bill, he could not pronounce, His complaint was, that he was utterly without the means of enabling him to judge. Did the right hon. Baronet know whether the agricultural interest was willing or unwilling to accept what he intended to offer? Did he know the average number of acres to be chained? Did he know the average expense of drainage per acre? Or did the right hon. Baronet mean, as he suspected, that it was all to be mere hap-hazard legislation? In the course of seven weeks something more ought to have been known respecting auditors and Poor Law Unions in Ireland. As a Member connected with Ireland, though not an Irish Member, he might add, that the matter did not stop there; the right hon. Baronet had said, that he meant to take the police force out of the hands of the magistracy and give it to the Executive Government. This was to be a boon to the agricultural interest; and the proposal was, to deprive the magistracy of the share they now possess in the control of the police force. The right hon. Baronet had never given the magistrates of Ireland an opportunity to consider whether they would have the measure in reference to the police fund, or in reference to other plans of improvement. This great question of the centralization of the police was connected with the auditors and the Poor Law Unions. It was not his fault, nor that of his friends, that these accompanying measures were not brought forward. The right hon. Baronet had mentioned them all to the House as parts of his great scheme. The right hon. Baronet said, in terms, that they were only parts of one great scheme; and as one great scheme he had insisted upon its being discussed and adopted. This question was not to be treated as a matter of party, but as a matter of plain straightforward business; and the whole House had a right to claim that the various parts should be considered altogether. He was sorry not to see the right hon. Baronet in his place, and he would have postponed his remarks, if it had not now been twenty minutes to six, when he might reasonably have been expected to be present. But, whether he were in his place or not, Members opposite, as well as those on the Ministerial side of the House, had a right to complain that only one measure of the great scheme had been submitted to it. The right hon. Baronet could not wonder that while the landed interest was charged (not by him, for he was too adroit) with delaying the only Bill upon the Table, they should in return complain that he had committed a double error. He had endeavoured to expedite a measure by joining it with the crime of famine in Ireland. This was one error, and the other was the practical dissevering of the Bill before the House from those measures which were professed to be intended to alleviate and diminish the difficulties of the agriculturists. He (Mr. A. S. O'Brien) did not ask the right hon. Baronet to take another course on the strength of old party attachments; he did not ask it on the score of political friendships; they, alas! no longer existed; but he begged to know from the Chancellor of the Exchequer how much longer the landed interest was to be kept in suspense? Whether any other measures, parts of the great scheme, were to be brought forward before Easter, so that the House might have an opportunity of pronouncing an opinion upon them before it decided finally on the measure which would expose the land to foreign competition? Of course any Member of the Government would be able to answer him, and to give him clear, definite, and distinct information. If nobody chose to answer him, but left the matter unexplained, injury would not be done to the protectionist party, but to Ministers, in the opinion of all reasonable judges and men of sound understanding.

The CHANCELLOR, OF THE EXCHEQUER

said, that he was sorry to have to apologize to the House for the absence of his right hon. Friend the First Lord of the Treasury. He could assure the House, and from the constancy of his right hon. Friend's attendance, they would readily credit the assurance, that nothing but the public business had prevented him being in his place at the usual hour. He certainly wished that the hon. Member had availed himself of some opportunity, during the seven weeks which he stated had elapsed since the measures of the Government were propounded to the House, to have asked this question as to the mode of transacting the public business, when the right hon. Baronet at the head of the Government was present. In bringing forward the measures now before the House, his right hon. Friend had entered into considerable detail as to the various measures he intended to submit to Parliament during the present Session, in connection with those measures for the reduction of duties now under consideration. And in the discussion that then took place, the great anxiety expressed was to have a knowledge of the details of the Bill which related to settlements. That Bill had accordingly been presented to the House, and was now in the hands of every Member. The Bills relating to the highways and to drainage were at present in a considerably advanced state of preparation. The substance and object of those Bills had been distinctly stated; and it was impossible for any one who wished to form a judgment on the bearings and tendency of those measures not to be able to do so from the statements already made. With respect to the other grants that were proposed to be made in aid of the costs of prosecution, the maintenance of prisoners, and the payment of salaries connected with the Poor Law Unions, the hon. Gentleman was just as able now to form a calculation of the amount of that expense, as he would be when the vote was propounded to the House in Committee of Supply; and until they would have a Committee of Supply, those votes would not be brought before the House. He was certainly not unacquainted with those votes, which would be laid upon the Table with the other estimates; but any Gentleman conversant with the details under those heads, would have no difficulty in forming an accurate calculation of the sum which would be required under the several heads that had been adverted to. He should certainly be most happy, if the mode in which public business was conducted, were such as to admit of a greater number of measures being simultaneously proceeded with; but he had had experience enough in Parliamentary life to know that the business of the House could only be transacted satisfactorily, by having their attention continuously directed to the particular objects that were from time to time submitted to the House, and finishing, or at least considerably advancing, the consideration of one, before they entered on that of another. From the Law of Settlement Bill which had been brought in, hon. Gentlemen would have the opportunity of judging of the hearing it ought to have upon the vote which they would give on other questions. The measures with respect to highways and drainage were in a state of preparation. Had he had notice of the question to be asked, he might have been able to state more exactly the period when they would be brought before the House; at present he could not do so; but it was not from any desire to withhold from the House any detail or information which was necessary to enable them to form an opinion on the other measures. He was extremely sorry the question had been put at this time, in the absence of those more particularly connected with the measures; he feared his answer might not have been quite satisfactory. All he could say was, that there was no indisposition on the part of the Government to make known to the House in the fullest detail all that was necessary for the guidance of their judgment; but in the conduct of business it was impossible to bring a variety of matters at the same time under their consideration.