§ LORD G. BENTINCKhad given notice to the right hon. Baronet the First Lord of the Treasury that he would ask a question with reference to the discussion coming on that night. From a recent return to the House, as to the effect of the total abolition of the excise duties on auctions and 1054 glass, it appeared that there had been a reduction of 450 excise officers, and a reduction in the cost of the excise of 52,636l. The total amount of excise duties on auctions and glass had been estimated at 900,000l. in round figures—308,000l in auctions, and 642,000l. in glass. The question he had to ask was one very pertinent to the matter now before the House—whether similar happy results had ensued from the reduction upon customs duties which had taken place between 1842 and the present time; and, further, whether the right hon. Baronet estimated that a reduction of Custom-house officers and of the expense of maintaining them might be fairly expected from the reductions in customs duties now under consideration?
§ SIR R. PEELPerhaps the House will recollect that when I proposed the entire reduction of the auctions and glass duties, I gave as a reason for the total reduction of those duties not only the immense advantage that there would be in the case of the excise duties on the total abolition of all interference with the ordinary course of business by the Excise, thus permitting the freest scope to the ingenuity, and skill, and capital of all men engaged, and all others who might be inclined to engage in the manufacture of glass; but I stated that there would also be this advantage from the total repeal of the existing excise duty, namely, that you could altogether dispense with that establishment of excise officers who have been employed in the superintendence of the trade and the duties. And that result has followed in the case of the auction and glass duties. My noble Friend has quoted, very correctly, the number of officers whose services have been dispensed with, and the saving that has been made upon their salaries; and I must say, that that document is a conclusive proof of the advantage, when the revenue will admit of it, of making a total reduction of certain duties, rather than in spreading your reductions over many, which continues the interference of the Excise with the ordinary occupations of manufacturers, and also makes it necessary to keep up nearly the same amount of officers for the purpose of superintending the trade and collecting a diminished amount of revenue; and, therefore, Sir, I think nothing can be more satisfactory than that document, in so far as the excise is concerned. Then my noble Friend asks me this question: as customs duties, of at least an equal amount, have been either materially 1055 reduced or repealed, has there been a saving in the establishment of the Customs, both in respect to the number of officers and their salaries, at all equivalent in amount to the reduction which has taken place in the Excise? I am bound at once to tell my noble Friend, there has not been a corresponding reduction, and that, in point of fact, from the course of trade, there cannot be such a corresponding reduction. Because, when you reduce a customs duty, even if you repeal it altogether, you do not at all dispense with the obligation of the ship bringing in the duty-free article reporting itself, being placed in charge, and an entry being made of the duty-free goods, equally with the entry which is required for goods subject to duty. You require it for two purposes. Firstly, for a statistical purpose; for a correct account of consumption and of the amount of the goods imported into this country. And when we proposed in 1844 a total repeal of the duties on many articles of customs, it was objected to us that there would not be the same opportunity as before existed of ascertaining the consumption of food. We saw then that we should take a correct account of the articles of food brought into this country. Another reason why this superintendence should continue was, that they should take precaution lest any articles repealed be imported without notice. For instance, they could not permit cotton to be brought in without some superintendence. The ship bringing in the goods must be taken under charge, and an entry of the goods taken. In the case of the repeal of the customs duties there has not been, and there cannot be, the same reduction of the establishment which has taken place in the Excise. But I will administer some consolation to my noble Friend, by showing him what has been the increase of trade in consequence of the reduction of the duties. That increase of trade implies an increase in the Customs establishment, and although we do not gain the advantage which we give in the Excise, yet we have an equivalent advantage of very great importance; and I hold in my hand an account with respect to the principal ports in this country of the number of ships with cargoes from abroad, which entered into these ports, and the number of entries. So desirous am I of affording every information on a subject of this kind that I would rather move for a return of the number of ships and of the number of entries. But the following account 1056 will show what has taken place with regard to the increase or suspension of trade. Contemporaneously with the Report of the Customs Duties, here is an account of the number of vessels which entered into the principal ports with cargoes from foreign countries, and the number of entries at the Custom-house:—
Therefore, my noble Friend will see that there has been an immense increase of trade in the country, that there was a much greater number of ships and entries in the latter year than in the former, a circumstance which prevents any decrease in the Customs establishment, because a much greater number of officers are required for the purpose of making the entries. But though there may not be that advantage in reducing the customs duties which we have in reducing the excise duties, yet I prove that we have a corresponding advantage.
Ports. Years. Ships with cargoes from foreign ports. Number of entries. London 1842 6370 484,000 1845 7521 567,000 Liverpool 1842 3285 188,000 1845 3900 220,000 Newcastle 1842 612 22,000 1845 908 30,000 Dublin 1842 261 21,700 1845 307 30,219 Dundee 1842 312 7,700 1845 415 9,600 Glasgow 1842 280 22,000 1845 418 30,700