§ MR. SIDNEY HERBERTmoved the Second Reading of this Bill.
§ CAPTAIN PECHELLbriefly expressed his dissent from the principles of this Bill, as its operation was by no means calculated to benefit the interests of, or to give satisfaction to these veterans. He objected to the transfer of the payment of the pensioners of Greenwich and Chelsea from the hands of the Admiralty to the hands of the Secretary at War. These pensioners never would consent to be placed under the authority of the Horse Guards. It was 974 provided by this Bill, that these persons' pensions should be paid to Poor Law guardians, to distribute it to them for assistance. He thought that was a gross abuse; for these pensions were originally intended as rewards for past services. He knew an instance in which a board of guardians had, for a long time, withheld the payment of a pension to a poor man after quarter-day came. He thought that it was a most extraordinary thing to put the payment of the pension in the hands of staff officers without the slightest explanation. The intention of the Bill was, to transfer all persons having pensions, he might say, bag and baggage, from under the control of the Admiralty into the hands of the Horse Guards. There was a reservation clause certainly; but he contended that it was of no use whatever.
§ MR. SIDNEY HERBERTsaid, the principal object of this Bill was to simplify the mode in which the pensioners received their pay; and, so far from its inflicting any hardship upon them, it was proposed for the express purpose of promoting their interest. He begged to inform the hon. and gallant Member that naval pensioners were now enabled to receive their pensions while serving on board Her Majesty's ships. This Bill would not remove pensioners from the control of the Admiralty, but would place, the arrangements for their payment in the hands of the Secretary at War. The naval pensions would still be granted and withdrawn by the Admiralty; but the pensions would be paid by staff officers, who at Portsmouth, Plymouth, and other naval stations, would generally be marine or naval officers. He begged to inform the hon. and gallant Officer who had adverted to the receipt of pensioners' pay by boards of guardians when they became inmates of workhouses, that at one time a great number of the pensioners dissipated their pay within a few days after they received it, and then threw themselves upon the poor rates until their pensions were again due. Not long since no less than 6,000 pensioners were in this situation; but since the arrangement was effected enabling the guardians to defray the expense of maintaining such persons from their subsequent pensions, the system was nearly at an end. He would, however, propose that the guardians, instead of being empowered to attach the whole pension in such cases, should only be enabled to take such portion as was necessary to defray the expenses of maintaining pensioners who were inmates of 975 workhouses. He trusted that, under the circumstances, there would be no opposition to the second reading of the Bill.
§ Bill read read a second time.