HC Deb 03 August 1846 vol 88 cc285-7
VISCOUNT CLIVE

wished for a moment to call attention to the Bill for preventing the union of the sees of St. Asaph and Bangor, for the purpose of appointing a Bishop of Manchester. As the consent of Her Majesty would be requisite to its discussion, he begged to ask what course the Government intended to take?

LORD J. RUSSELL

With respect to the subject alluded to by the noble Lord, my own opinion would be, that the safest course would have been to abide by the Report of the Commissioners; at the same time I feel that a Bill which has received the consent of the House of Lords, and to which I believe nearly all the bishops agreed, comes with a certain weight of authority into this House, and deserves to be very maturely considered. But I could not agree with the Bill now upon the Table, even supposing that I was prepared to depart from the Report of the Commission. It appears to me that it would not be sufficient and right merely to preserve the dioceses of St. Asaph and Bangor in their present state. What I should have to do would be either to abide by the Report of the Commission, or, departing from it, to consider the question with reference to other circumstances, the state of the parishes in those dioceses, and the boundaries of those dioceses, with a view to better episcopal superintendence. The Bill having been, as I have said, sanctioned by the authority of the other House of Parliament, I am quite ready to give it consideration with a view to these subjects; but the Government have not had time to take it into consideration with that view, and I shall therefore feel it my duty, if the noble Lord persists in pressing it in this Session, to oppose it. If he does not bring it forward now, I can assure him that the whole subject shall receive the most deliberate attention and consideration from the Government, not with a view to see whether a Bill similar to this can be brought in next year, but whether a Bill can be framed with a view to better episcopal superintendence in Wales, and a better arrangement of these dioceses.

VISCOUNT CLIVE

would not press the Bill to a second reading this Session, as the noble Lord was prepared to take the whole subject of episcopacy in England into consideration.

LORD J. RUSSELL

A phrase has fallen from the noble Lord which makes it necessary for me to say, that what I propose to consider is not the state of the episcopate in general, but the amount of episcopal superintendence in particular dioceses, with a view to the propriety of abiding or not by the present boundaries of those dioceses.

MR. HUME

would like to know what the Government thought of another Bill about the bishops, the Episcopal Revenues and Dioceses Bill, which stood for a second reading on Wednesday. How it got into the House he knew not, but it provided for the appointment of nineteen new bishops, and set out a list of them in detail, the bishop of Melton Mowbray, and so on.

SIR G. GREY

believed that the hon. Member who introduced that Bill (Mr. Frewen) stated at the time that he had brought it in consequence of the Bill of the noble Lord (Lord Clive); and as the latter was not be pressed in this Session, probably no more would be heard of the former. He (Sir G. Grey) rather thought the hon. Member had only wished to place before the House his view of the general subject, if the St. Asaph and Bangor Bill went on.

SIR R. INGLIS

had not read the Bill, and he did not believe that the bench of bishops had been consulted upon it, or made acquainted with it. At the same time he was far from deprecating such a Bill, believing some measure upon the subject to be greatly called for by the necessities of the case.

MR. BORTHWICK

did not see why the public money should be expended in print- ing the schemes which might enter into the heads of hon. Members, but which they did propose to pass into laws. The country felt that there existed considerable need of more episcopal superintendence, and the House would sanction a measure founded on that view, but would never listen to a scheme so preposterous as that just adverted to.

SIR R. PEEL

thought it would be as well not to prejudice the discussion upon the Bill; it seemed to have undergone great consideration by the careful selection of dioceses. It was satisfactory to see that the spiritual wants of Melton Mowbray had not been overlooked.