HC Deb 21 July 1843 vol 70 cc1299-304
Lord Ashley

begged to inquire of the right hon. Baronet at the head of her Majesty's Government, whether the Government intended to introduce any measure in the next Session of Parliament to amend the laws relating to factories?

Sir R. Peel

had no hesitation in saying that the postponement of the bill, which had been before the House, to a future Session, had not arisen from any doubt on the part of the Government of its importance or propriety, but only from the desire expressed by hon. Gentlemen on both sides of the House that it should be fully discussed. He was prepared to give his noble Friend an assurance that a bill would be introduced at a very early period of the next Session for the purpose of amending the law on this subject.

ARMS (IRELAND) BILL.]

House in committee on the Arms (Ireland) Bill.

On clause 36, "no arms or ammunition to be kept by unlicensed persons."

Sir W. Barron

moved that the last three lines, enforcing penalty not exceeding 10l. and forfeiture, should be left out, and the words, "a fine not exceeding forty shillings," should be inserted.

After some conversation the amendment was withdrawn.

Clause agreed to.

Clauses up to 39 were then severally agreed to.

On clause 40, licensed persons lending their licences to other persons, to be liable to a penalty.

Sir R. Ferguson

proposed to insert the words "not being licensed."

The committee divided on the question that the words be inserted: Ayes 33; Noes 86; Majority 53.

The committee again divided, on the question that the clause stand part of the bill: Ayes 65; Noes 18; Majority 47.

List of the AYES.
Ackers, J. Hope, hon. C.
Alexander, N. Hope, G. W.
Baillie, Col. Hornby, J.
Baillie, H. J. Jones, Capt.
Baring, H. B. Kemble, H.
Baskerville, T. Knatchbull, rt. hn. Sir E
Boldero, H. G. Knight, F. W.
Botfield, B. Lincoln, Earl of
Broadley, H. Lockhart, W.
Buckley, E. Mackenzie, T.
Clerk, Sir G. Manners, Lord J.
Corry, rt. hon. H. Marsham, Visct.
Damer, hon. Col. Meynell, Capt.
Dickinson, F. H. Mundy, E. M.
Douglas, Sir C. E. Newdigate, C. N.
Duncombe, hon. A. Northland, Visct.
Eliot, Lord O'Brien, A. S.
Estcourt, T. G. B. Palmer, G.
Flower, Sir J. Peel, J.
Forman, T. S. Plumptre, J. P.
Gaskell, J. Milnes Pollock, Sir F,
Gordon, hon. Capt. Richards, R.
Goulburn, rt. hon. H. Russell, C.
Graham, rt. hn,. Sir H. Scott, hon. F.
Hardinge, rt. hn. Sir H. Smith, A.
Henley, J. W. Smith, rt. hon. T. B.C.
Herbert, hon. S. Somerset, Lord G.
Hervey, Lord A. Stuart, W. V.
Hodgson, H. Sutton, hon. H. M,
Tennent, J. E. Wellesley, Lord C.
Thompson, Mr. Ald. Young, J.
Trench, Sir F. W. TELLERS.
Vesey, hon. T. Freemantle, Sir T.
Vivian, J. E. Pringle, A.
List of the NOES.
Archbold, R. Smith, B.
Barnard, E. G. Thornely, T.
Blake, M. J. Trelawny, J. S.
Brotherton, J. Wawn, J. T.
Collett J. Wood, B.
Esmonde, Sir T. Wyse, T.
Ferguson, Sir R. A. Yorke, H. R.
Forster, M.
Hume, J. TELLERS.
Norreys, Sir D. J. Clements, Visct.
O'Connell, M. J. O'Brien, W. S.

Clause to stand part of the bill.

Clause 41 agreed to.

On clause 42, "licences to be bad for making and repairing arms," being read,

Mr. O'Brien

objected to the whole clause, but particularly to the penalty of repairing arms without licence. He moved to leave out the words "mend or repair."

The committee divided on the question that the words proposed to be left out stand part of the clause: Ayes 57; Noes 15; Majority 42.

On the question that the blank in the clause be filed up with the words "fifty pounds,"

Lord Clements

moved that the words be "twenty pounds."

The committee divided on the question that the words be "fifty pounds:" Ayes 56; Noes 22; Majority 34.

The committee again divided on the question that the clause stand part of the bill: Ayes 66; Noes 26; Majority 40.

List of the AYES.
Ackers, J. Forman, T. S.
Acton, Col. Gaskell, J. Milnes
Antrobus, E. Gladstone, rt. hn. W. E.
Arkwright, G. Graham, rt. hn. Sir J.
Baillie, Col. Grogan, E.
Baskerville, T. B. M. Hamilton, G. A.
Borthwick, P. Harcourt, G. G.
Botfield, Hardinge, rt. hn. Sir H.
Boyd, J. Henley, J. W.
Buckley, E. Hodgson, R.
Chute, W. L. W. Hope, hon. C.
Clerk, Sir G. Hope, G. W.
Clive, hon. R. H. Hornby, J.
Colvile, C. R. Jones, Capt.
Dickinson, F. H. Kemble, H.
Douglas, Sir C. E. Knatchbull, rt. hn. Sir E
East, J. B. Knight, H. G.
Eliot, Lord Lockhart, W.
Escott, B. Lowther, J. H.
Flower, Sir J. Mackenzie, T.
Mackenzie, W. F. Smith, A.
Manners, Lord J. Smith, rt. hn. T. B. C.
Marsham, Visct. Stanley, Lord
Martin, C. W. Stuart, W. V.
Marton, G. Stuart, H.
Maxwell, hon. J. P. Sutton, hon. H. M.
Miles, W. Tennent, J. E.
Nicholl, rt. hon. J. Trench, Sir F. W.
O'Brien, A. S. Vivian, J. E.
Packe, C. W. Wellesley, Lord C.
Palmer, G. Young, J.
Peel, rt. hn. Sir R.
Pollock, Sir F. TELLERS.
Pringle, A. Freemantle, Sir T.
Repton, G. W. J. Baring, H.
List of the NOES.
Barnard, E. G. O'Conor Don
Bowring, Dr. Plumridge, Capt.
Brotherton, J. Trelawny, J. S.
Clements, Visct. Wallace, R.
Collett, J. Ward, H. G.
Crawford, W. S. Wawn, J. T.
Duncan, G. Williams, W.
Elphinstone, H. Wilshere, W.
Esmonde, Sir T. Wood, B.
Ewart, W. Wyse, T.
Forster, M. Yorke, H. R.
Hatton, Capt. V.
Hawes, B. TELLERS.
Hill Lord M Norreys, Sir D.
Hindley, C. O'Brien, W. S.

Clause agreed to.

On clause 44, providing that "a monthly account of arms sold and repaired shall be kept, and returned to the sub-inspector of the constabulary force."

Mr. Collet

moved the omission of the word "repaired."

The committee divided on the question that the word stand part of the clause; Ayes 74; Noes 21; Majority 53.

Clause agreed to.

On clause 45; "licences under this act may be suspended on notice from the chief or under-secretary,"

Lord Clements

moved that! the words, "chief or under-secretary" be omitted. The committee divided on the question that these words stand part of the clause; Ayes 94; Noes 11; Majority 83.

Clause agreed to.

On clause 46, justices of peace may search for arms kept for sale.

The committee then divided on the question that the clause stand part of the bill; Ayes 93; Noes 34; Majority 59.

List of the AYES.
Ackers, J. Antrobus, E.
Acton, Col. Archbold, R.
Alexander, N. Arkwright, G.
Alford, Visct. Baillie, Col.
Baskerville, T. B. M. Knatchbull, rt. hn. Sir E
Bernard, Visct. Lefroy, A.
Boldero, H. G. Lincoln, Earl of
Borthwick, P. Lockhart, W.
Botfield, B. Lowther, J. H.
Boyd, J. Lowther, hon. Col.
Buckley, E. Mackenzie, W. F.
Bunbury, T. McGeachy, F. A.
Chute, W. L. W. Manners, Lord J.
Clerk, Sir G. Marsham, Visct.
Clive, hon. R. H. Martin, C. W.
Colvlle, C. R. Maxwell, hon. J. P.
Corry, rt. hon. H. Meynell, Capt.
Douglas, Sir H. Miles, W.
Douglas, Sir C. E. Neeld, J.
Duncombe, hon. O. Newdigate, C. N.
East, J. B. O'Brien, A. S.
Egerton, W. T. Palmer, G.
Eliot, Lord Peel, rt. hon. Sir R.
Escott, B. Plumptre, J. P.
Estcourt, T. G. B. Pollock, Sir F.
Ferguson, Sir R. A. Praed, W. T.
Flower, Sir J. Pringle, A.
Forman, T. S. Rashleigh, W.
Gaskell, J. Miles Repton, G. W. J.
Gladstone, rt. hn. W. E. Rolleston, Col.
Gladstone, Capt. Rose, rt. hon. Sir G.
Gordon, hon. Capt. Round, J.
Goulburn, rt. hon. H. Rous, hon. Capt.
Graham, rt. ho. Sir J. Russell, J. D. W.
Grogan, E. Smith, A.
Hamilton, G. A. Smith, rt. hn. T. B. C.
Harcourt, G. G. Somerset, Lord G.
Hardinge, rt. hn. Sir H. Stanley, Lord
Henley, J. W. Stuart, W. V.
Herbert, hon. S. Stuart, H.
Hervey, Lord A. Sutton, hon. H. M.
Hodgson, R. Tennent, J. E.
Hope, hon. C. Thornhill, G.
Hope, G. W. Vesey, hon. T.
Hornby, J. Vivian, J. E.
Hughes, W. B. TELLERS.
Jones, Capt. Fremantle, Sir T.
Kemble, H. Young, J.
List of the NOES.
Baring, rt. hon. F. T. Hindley, C.
Barnard, E. G. Napier, Sir C.
Barron, Sir H. W. O'Brien, W. S.
Bowring, Dr. O'Conor Don
Brotherton, J. Plumridge, Capt.
Colebrooke, Sir T. E. Power, J.
Collett, J. Trelawny, J. S.
Crawford, W. S. Tuite, H. M.
Duncan, G. Wallace, R.
Dundas, Adm. Wawn, J. T.
Elphinstone, H. Williams, W.
Esmonde. Sir T'. Wilshere, W.
Ewart, W. Wood, B.
Forster, M. Wyse, T.
Hall, Sir B. Yorke, H. R.
Hatton, Capt. V. TELLERS.
Hawes, B. Clements, Visct.
Hill, Lord M. O'Connell, M. J.

On clause 54, grand juries may present sums for paying clerks of the peace for their trouble.

Lord Clements

moved to omit the words "trouble, &c."

The committee divided on the question that the words proposed to be left out stand part of the clause: Ayes 111; Noes 37; Majority 74.

The committee again divided on the question that the clause stand part of the bill: Ayes 105; Noes 29; Majority 76.

List of the AYES.
Acland, Sir T. D. Hardy, J.
Acton, Col. Hayes, Sir E.
Alexander, N. Hensley, J. W.
Antrobus, E. Herbert, hon. S.
Archdall, Capt. M. Hervey, Lord A.
Arkwright, G. Hodgson, F.
Baillie, Col. Hodgson, It.
Bankes, G. Hornby, J.
Baskerville, T. B. M. Hughes, W. B.
Bateson, It. Ingestre, Visct.
Bernard, Visct. Jermyn, Earl
Blackburne, J. I. Jones, Capt.
Boldero, H. G. Knatchbull, rt. hn. Sir E
Botfield, B., Lefroy, A.
Boyd, J. Lincoln, Earl of
Broadley, H. Lockhart, W.
Broadwood, H. Lowther, J. H.
Brooke, Sir A. B. Lowther, hon. Col.
Bruce, Lord E. Mackenzie, W. F.
Buckley, E. Mc. Geachy, F. A.
Bunbury, T. Masterman, J.
Chelsea, Visct. Maxwell, hon. J. P.
Chetwode, Sir J. Meyneil, Capt.
Chute, W. L. W. Mundy, E. M.
Clive, hon. R. H. Newry, Visct.
Collett, W. It. Nicholl, rt. hon. J.
Colvile, C. R. O'Brien, A. S.
Corry, rt. hon. H. Patten, J. W.
Courtenay, Lord Peel, rt. hon. Sir R.
Damer, hon. Col. Plumptre, J. P.
Denison, E. B. Pollock, Sir F.
Dickinson, F. H. Pringle, A.
Dodd, G. Rashleigh, W.
Douglas, Sir C. E. Rose, rt. hon. Sir G.
Duncombe, hon. A. Round, J.
East, J. B. Rushbrooke, Col.
Egerton, W. T. Sandon, Visct.
Eliot, Lord Scott, hon. F.
Estcourt, T. G. B. Sibthorp, Col.
Farnham, E. B. Smith, rt. hn. T. B. C.
Flower, Sir J. Somerset, Lord G.
Forman, T. S. Stanley, Lord
Fox, S. L. Stuart, W. V.
Fuller, A. E. Stuart, H.
Gaskell, J. Milnes Sutton, hon. H. M.
Gladstone, rt. hn. W. E. Taylor, E.
Gladstone, Capt. Tennent, J. E.
Gordon, hon. Capt. Thornhill, G.
Goulburn, rt. hon. Vesey, hon. T.
Graham, rt. hn. Sir J. Wellesley, Lord C.
Granby, Marq. of Wortley, hon. J. S.
Grogan, E. TELLERS.
Hamilton, G. A. Clerk, Sir
Hardinge, rt. hn, Sir H, Young,
List of the NOES.
Aldam, W. Hindley, C.
Archbold, R. Morris, D.
Bowring, Dr. Muntz, G. F.
Brotherton, J. O'Connell, M. J.
Cavendish, hon. C. C. O'Conor Don
Clements, Visct. Power, J.
Collett, J. Thorneley, T.
Crawford, W. S. Tuite, H. M.
Duncan, G. Ward, H. G.
Elphinstone, H. Wawn, J. Twizell.
Esmonde, Sir T. Williams, W.
Ewart, W. Wood, B.
Ferguson, Sir R. A. Yorke, H. R.
Forster, M. TELLERS.
Gill, T. Wyse, J.
Gore, hon. R. O'Brien, W. S.

House resumed, the committee to sit again.