SUPPLY.—MONUMENTS TO EMINENT ADMIRALS. (Hansard, 7 August 1843)

§ Mr. Hawes
took the opportunity of repeating the suggestion that these public honours should be extended to persons who had rendered memorable services to the country in other departments, beside those of the naval and military professions. However willing he might be to recognize and commemorate the merits of men who, either in the field, or on the ocean, had done gallant deeds, by which the honour or the safety of the country was sustained, still, to those who served mankind in the arts of peace, public gratitude was due. In his opinion, to such men as Newton, Herschel, Davy, and others, who in science bad contributed to the happiness and renown of England, some testimonial of public esteem should be erected. He would therefore submit to the right hon. Baronet the First Lord of the Treasury whether the question, as to the practicability of erecting monuments or statues to men eminent in science and literature, might not with propriety be referred to the commission that was now in existence for considering the decoration of the new Houses of Parliament? As to expense, he thought the competition among artists, and the fame to be acquired, would materially diminish the cost.

§ Sir Robert Peel
could not see the slightest objection to the measure which the hon. Gentleman proposed—namely, the erecting statues, or in some other mark of public respect for men of eminence in science.—He, for one, could see no reason why, a testimonial of public esteem should not be conferred on any great and eminent mathematician, who had done honour to his country, as on any military or naval hero whose services the country, was proud to acknowledge. The knowledge that such a public record of their merits would exist to perpetuate their memory, would, he had no doubt, operate as an incentive to exertion among scientific men. But the difficulty which occurred to him was, as to the place where these monuments should be erected. There was a growing objection to placing them in ecclesiastical buildings. Some of those objections were on religious grounds. It was not deemed right to make sacred buildings places of public exhibition; but unless the public could have free access to them, he confessed that his opinion was that no great public monument ought to be erected within them. But then, if such monuments were not to be erected in sacred 356 edifices, where were they to be placed? If they were to erect them out of doors the statues must be in bronze, for neither stone nor marble would bear exposure to the atmosphere. The few statues that were placed out of doors in this metropolis so soon became discoloured by smoke and other substances that were floating in the air, that they failed to be any great ornaments to the locality; but the expense of bronze statues would be enormous. This difficulty as to the site, therefore, was one which presented itself very forcibly to his mind. He agreed with the hon. Gentleman that the cost of the statues might be very materially diminished by open competition among the rising artists who would readily take the chance of future fame in part payment for their labour. Thus, two objects might be accomplished if the suggestion of the hon. Gentleman were to be aopted—not only would there be the raising of a national memorial in honour of men of eminence in science, but encouragement would he given to the rising artists of the country. He had given considerable attention to this subject, and he had always hoped that some portion of the great building, which was designed for the two Houses of Parliament, might be devoted to the reception of statues of eminent men—not merely statesmen, or men of a political character; but men distinguished in the annals of literature and science. If he were sure that any portion of the new Houses of Parliament could be so appropriated, he should not have the slightest difficulty in putting the matter to the consideration of the commission to which the hon. Gentleman had referred, and which commission he thought had discharged its duty with the greatest credit to itself and service to the public. But that commission was confined in its object—namely, to consider the proper mode of decorating the new Houses of Parliament. If the House were to extend its duty beyond that point, it might become a general roving commission upon the fine arts of the country. He was not, therefore, prepared at once to recommend that commission to undertake other duties than were originally assigned to them; unless he had reason to believe that there would be some portion of the building in which statues of eminent civilians and men of science could be placed, he should like to reserve to himself the opportunity of con- 357 sidering whether that commission or some other should be engaged in the inquiry. He owned he did not see any thing very difficult in the matter; nor was he at all adverse to the object which the hon. Gentleman had in view. The site constituted the chief thing. He did not think Westminster Abbey or St. Paul's would be a proper place. The hall at Greenwich Hospital was perfectly appropriate for the reception of the statues of eminent commanders. It was a very great ornament, and was exactly suited to the genius loci. He did not know of any actual building existing at present where he could place statues of men of science; he would therefore ask the hon. Gentleman not to press the matter further at present. Agreeing, as he did, in the principle of the suggestions, and glad as he should be to have an opportunity of erecting monuments to the memory of men of science, such as Newton, Davy, and Herschel, still, before taking any step, he should wish to be satisfied as to the place where such monuments could be erected.

Mr. V. Smith
said, if the right hon. Baronet had that good faith in the opinion of the commission which he believed all persons entertained, why should not the right hon. Baronet refer to them that particular point, whether there were any portion of the new Houses of Parliament which would be proper for such statues as had been suggested by the hon. Member for Lambeth? He understood that Westminster Hall was to form one of the means of access to the Houses of Parliament; and he did not see why Westminster Hall should not he one of the means for accomplishing the object desired.

§ Sir Robert Peel
did not wish that the commissioners should go beyond their original line of duty. At the same time, if' it should be within the original design to afford means of receiving statues within the new building, he should not have the slightest objection to suggest the point to the commissioners.

§ Mr. Hume
was pleased at hearing the opinions expressed by the right hon. Baronet as to the desirableness of some suitable place being found for the erection of public monuments. He would ask the right hon. Baronet why all the public statutes now standing in Westminster Abbey and St. Paul's Cathedral should not be removed. If it were proposed to erect a building for the express purpose of afford- 358 ing a place where the statues of eminent men, whether in he naval and military professions, or whether of eminence in literature, science, and art, could be placed, he should be prepared to support such a proposal. He believed that whatever sum might be requisite for such a purpose would be readily accorded by the House and the public. Was it not a great scandal to this country that a statue of one of our most illustrious poets (Lord Byron), the work of one of the most eminent sculptors in Europe (Thorwaldsen), should have been consigned, for the last ten years, to the vaults of the Custom-house, because it pleased the Dean and Chapter of Westminster to refuse a site for its erection in Westminster Abbey, and there being no other place in which it could be erected.

§ Mr. M. Milnes
thought it was extremely creditable to the hon. Member for Montrose that, with all his economical propensities, he had always shown himself extremely generous with respect to matters of art. He believed there were great difficulties in the way of opening the Cathedral to the public, and from conversations he had had, he could state, that their guardians were as anxious to open all to public, and in every respect to accomplish the wishes which, from time to time, had been expressed.