HC Deb 07 April 1843 vol 68 cc727-8

On the proposition of a vote of 8,928l.. for the Roman Catholic College at Maynooth,

Mr. Plumptre

rose and said that he should not enter now into any discussion upon the subject of this vote, but he should take the sense of the committee upon the vote.

Mr. B. Cochrane

also opposed the vote, but would defer any lengthened observation until the motion of which he had given notice, should come before the House. A committee would be better able to judge of how far that system of education had been prejudicial to the country. With respect to the bearing of this question on the point of keeping faith with the Irish Union, the fact of the grant being annual, was of itself evidence that Parliament might at any time discontinue it. He had heard it said, that the articles of the Union would virtually be violated by a refusal of the grant, but he had that day read the fifth article of that Union, by which the Church of England was made the Established Church of Ireland, and he confessed he could not see how, by supporting a Roman Catholic establishment in Ireland, they could say that they were acting up to the principles of the Union. There was no reason, in connexion with the original foundation and subsequent support of the College of Maynooth, why such a sum as upwards of 8,000l.. a-year, should be given to it. They certainly could never forget that the Roman Catholic religion was the religion of their ancestors, and it was in no feeling of disrespect for that religion that he made these remarks; but he considered that, having declared the Protestant religion to be the religion of the State, the State ought to act towards it as a parent to his child, and that it was its bounden duty in no way whatever to hold doctrines that were in opposition to the established religion of the country. He was wholly opposed to all those declamatory allusions to the Roman Catholics which were too frequently heard. He respected the doctrines of the Roman Catholics though he was himself a Protestant. [Mr. Plumptre: " Hear."] Surely, with all deference to the hon. Gentleman, he might be permitted to respect the opinions of another man, although he differed from them, and though he knew that many who were in the habit of speaking in Exeter Hall and elsewhere, might therefore consider him not a good churchman. But he did respect the faith of his ancestors. At the same time, however, that he respected that faith, he would ever uphold the doctrine of his own creed, to which that faith was opposed, and it was his intention, after the Easter recess, to move for a committee to inquire into the system and effects of the education at Maynooth, considering that that would be the best mode of dealing with the subject.

Mr. Hardy

said, that at a recent meeting of the Repeal Association in Dublin, three priests of Maynooth contributed to the fund for the repeal of the Union.

The committee divided:—Ayes 120; Noes 40: Majority 80.

List of the AYES.
Acland, T. D. Balfour, J. M.
Aglionby, H. A. Baring, hon. W. B.
Aldam, W. Barnard, E. G.
Arundel and Surrey, Earl of Beckett, W.
Blake, Sir. V.
Baillie, Col. Boldero, H, G.
Botfield, B. Johnstone, H.
Bowring, Dr. Knatchbull, rt. hn. Sir E
Brainstem, T. W. Lambton, H.
Brodie, W. B. Langston, J. H.
Brotherton, J. Layard, Capt.
Browne, hon. W. Leicester, Earl of
Brace, Lord E. Lincoln, Earl of
Buckley, E. McGeachy, F. A.
Buller, E. Mahon, Visct.
Busfeild, W. Manners, Lord J.
Chelsea, Visct. Marshall, W.
Clerk, Sir G. Martin, C. W.
Clive, E. B. Mitcalfe, II.
Clive, hon. R. H. Mitchell, T. A.
Colebrooke, Sir T. E. Murray, C. R. S.
Corry, rt. hon. H. Napier, Sir C.
Courtenay, Lord Nicholl, rt. hon; J.
Crawford, W. S. Ord, W.
Darner, hon. Col. Patten, J. W.
Duke, Sir J. Peel, rt. hn. Sir R.
Duncan, G. Peel, J.
Eastnor, Visct. Plumridge, Capt.
Eliot, Lord Pollock, Sir F.
Ellice, E. Praed, W. T.
Escott, B. Pulsford, R.
Esmonde, Sir T. Pusey, P.
Ewart, W. Ross, D. R.
Flower, Sir J. Scholefield, J.
Forster, M. Seymour, Sir H. B.
Fox, C. R. Smith, rt. hon. K. V.
Gladstone, rt. hn. W.E. Smith, rt. hon. T. B.C.
Gordon, ton. Capt. Smythe, hon. G.
Gore, M. Stanley, Lord
Goulburn, rt. hon. H. Stanley, E.
Graham, rt. he. Sir J. Stewart, J.
Grey, rt. hon. Sir G. Stuart, W. V.
Grimsditch, T. Stock, Mr. Serj.
Guest, Sir J. Strutt, E.
Hamilton, W. J. Sutton, hn. H. M.
Harcourt, G. G. Tancred, H. W.
Hardinge, rt. hn. Sir H. Tennent, J. E.
Hatton, Capt. V. Thesiger, F.
Hawes, B. Thornely, T.
Heathcoat, J. Trench, Sir F. W.
Heneage, G. H. W. Villiers, hon. C.
Henley, J. W. Vivian, J. H.
Herbert, hon. S. Vivian, hon. Capt.
Hervey, Lord A. Wawn, J.T.
Hill, Lord M. Wood, Col.
Hindley, C. Wood, Col. T.
Hollond, R. Wood, G. W.
Hope, hon. C. Wortley, hon; J, S.
Hope, G. W. Young, J
Hussey, T. Freemantle, Sir T.
Jermyn, Earl Gaskell, J. Milnes
List of the NOES.
Ackers, J. Buller, Sir J. Y.
Alford, Visct. Christopher, R. A.
Allix, J. P. Clayton, R.R.
Antrobus, E. Colvile, C. R.
Archdall, Capt. M. Filmer, Sir E.
Arkwright, G. Fuller, A. E.
Bateson, R. Gore, W. R. O.
Bernard, Visct. Gregory, W. H.
Broadwood, H. Grimston, Visct.
Grogan, E. Mundy, E. M.
Hamilton, G. A. Newdegate, C. N.
Hardy, J. Repton, G. W. J.
Hodgson, R. Russell, J. D. W.
Ingestrie, Visct. Ryder, hon. G. D.
Kemble, H. Sibthorp, Col.
Lawson, A. Smith, A.
Lefroy, A. Tollemache, J,
Mainwaring, T. Verner, Col.
Marsham, Visct.
Master, T. W. C. TELLERS.
Masterman, J. Plumptre, J. P.
Maxwell, hon. J. P. Cochrane, A.

The vote agreed to.