§ House in Committee of Supply. On the motion that a sum of 84,000l. be granted to defray the charges of allowances or compensation granted as superannuation or retired allowances to persons formerly employed in the public offices or departments, or in the public service,
Mr. Williamssaid, that where high class salaries were paid, those in the receipt of them ought to be compelled to provide something towards a superannuated fund out of their salaries. There was one person—he would not mention the name, but it would be found in page 8—whose salary was 500l., and he was superannuated upon 400l. His age was stated at 57, and his service at 41 years. The person to whom he alluded might be a meritorious officer, but 400l. allowance to a person of 57 years, whose salary was 500l., appeared very considerable.
§ Sir G. Clerksaid, that various acts had been passed from time to time, all tending to limit the power with respect to the granting of retired allowances. 'f he last of these was passed in 3834, and since 1839 all persons having salaries to a certain amount paid 5 per cent. out of them. With reference to the particular case alluded to, the allowance had been made under peculiar circumstances.
§ Mr. Humecontended, that ever since 1830 the tendency with respect to retired allowances was rather towards their in- 182 crease than towards their diminution, and in his opinion something ought to be done to check the practice.
§ Vote agreed to.
§ On the question that 39,200l. be granted for foreign and other secret services.
Mr. Williamsobjected to this vote; at least, such part of it as was expended for the Home Department, for there was a general impression on the public mind that it was employed for electioneering purposes. He saw no reason why such service money should be voted for the Home Department, arid he therefore moved, that instead of 39,200l. being granted, only 39,200l. should be voted, and that that sum should be exclusively expended for foreign services.
§ Sir J. Grahamsaid, the hon. Gentleman was labouring under a great error in supposing that the secret service-money was expended for electioneering purposes. For the last three years no secret service-money had been voted for the Home Department, but he did not mean to say, that it might not be necessary from time to time for the Home Department to have a sum at its disposal for secret service. There still remained, however, a portion of the sum last voted for the Home service. With regard to the Foreign Department, the business of the country could not be conducted unless a sum of this kind was placed at its disposal.
§ Viscount Palmerstonconfirmed the statement of the right hon. Baronet, that no part of the secret service-money was applied to electioneering purposes; and that the public service of the country in regard to its foreign relations, could not. be conducted, unless a sum of money was granted which the Secretary of State might dispose of under his own responsibility, without being obliged to render a public account of it, which would defeat the object for which it was expended.
§ Mr. Humewould vote in favour of the reduction proposed by the hon. Member for Coventry, as he thought nothing ought to be done in secret under a representative Government.
§ The committee divided on the question that the sum be 19,200l.:—Ayes 13; Noes 117:—Majority 104.
| List of the AYES. | |
| Bowring, Dr. | Ewart, W. |
| Brotherton, J. | Fielden, J. |
| Cobden, R. | Gibson, T. M. |
| Hindley, C. | Wawn, J. T. |
| Morris, D. | Wood, B. |
| Pechell, Capt. | TELLERS. |
| Protheroe, E. | Hume, J. |
| Villiers, hon. C. | Williams. W. |
| List of the NOES | |
| Acland, Sir T. D. | Henniker, Lord |
| Acland, T. D. | Hervey, Lord A. |
| A'Court, Capt. | Hinde, J. H. |
| Aldam, W. | Hodgson, R. |
| Allix, J. P. | Hope, hon. C. |
| Arbuthnott, hon. H. | Hornby, J. |
| Bagge, W. | Howard, P. H. |
| Bankes, G. | Hussey, T. |
| Barnard, E. G. | Jackson, J. D. |
| Baskerville, T. B. M. | Jermyn, Earl. |
| Berkeley, hon. Capt. | Jolliffe, Sir W. G. H |
| Borthwick, P. | Kemble, H. |
| Bramston, T. W. | Knatchbull, rt. hn.Sir E |
| Broadley, H. | Knight, H. G. |
| Broadwood, H. | Labouchere, rt. hn. H. |
| Bruce, Lord E. | Lefroy, A. |
| Buckley, E. | Legh, G. C. |
| Buller, Sir J. Y. | Lemon, Sir C. |
| Busfeild, W. | Lennox, Lord A. |
| Byng, rt. hon. G. S. | Liddell, hon. H. T. |
| Campbell, A. | Lindsey, H. H. |
| Cholmondeley, hn. H. | Litton, E. |
| Chute, W. L. W. | Lowther, J. H. |
| Clerk, Sir G. | Lyall, G. |
| Clive, E. B. | Mackenzie, T. |
| Cochrane, A. | Mackenzie, W. F. |
| Colebrooke, Sir T. E. | Mc Geachey, F. A. |
| Collett, W. R. | Masterman, J. |
| Courtenay, Lord | Meynell, Capt. |
| Cowper, hon. W. F. | Norreys, Sir D. J. |
| Damer, hon. Col. | Northland, Visct. |
| Darby, G. | O'Brien, A. |
| Denison, E. B. | Paget, Col. |
| Douglas, Sir H. | Palmer, G. |
| Douglas, Sir C. E. | Palmerston, Visct. |
| Egerton, W. T. | Plumptre, J. P. |
| Fellowes, E. | Praed, W. T. |
| Ferguson, Sir R. A. | Pringle, A. |
| Flower, Sir J. | Richards, R. |
| Follett, Sir W. W. | Rolleston, Col. |
| Ffolliott, J. | Rushbrooke, Col. |
| Forbes, W. | Scarlett, hon. R. C. |
| Fuller, A. E. | Sheil, rt. hon. R. L. |
| Gaskell, J. Milnes. | Sheppard, T. |
| Gladstone, rt. hn. W.E. | Somerset, Lord G. |
| Gordon, hon. Capt. | Stanley, Lord |
| Gordon Lord F. | Stewart, J. |
| Gore, M. | Sutton, hon. H. M. |
| Gore, hon. R. | Tollemache, J. |
| Goulburn, rt. hon. H. | Trotter, J. |
| Graham, rt. hn. Sir J. | Vane, Lord H. |
| Grimsditch, T. | Verner, Col. |
| Grogan, E. | Vesey, hon. T. |
| Hamilton, W. J | Waddington, H. S. |
| Hamilton, Lord C. | Wall, C. B. |
| Hampden, R. | Wood, Col. |
| Harcourt, G. G. | Wyse, T. |
| Hardinge, rt. hn. Sir H. | TELLERS. |
| Hawes, B. | Fremantle, Sir T. |
| Henley, J. W. | Baring, H. |