POST-OFFICE. (Hansard, 28 April 1842)

§ Mr. Wallace
said, notwithstanding the adverse opinion which has been pronounced by the House on the motion I have just now made, I beg to move for printing a return of what I call Post-office plunder. The question is, whether the return which shows all the moneys, whether bills of exchange, or notes, or gold, or trinkets, or Other articles, which have been lost through the Post-office shall be printed, and those who wish to see the return printed will vote with me. I find the return for 1837 contains twenty-two pages, filled with those abstractions of money, bank notes, bills, &c. That for 1838 contains twenty-five pages; in 1839, it contains a still greater number; and in 1840, it contains no fewer than 273 pages; so that it appears this trade is increasing, and those who wish to encourage it will vote not to have these documents printed. My returns in 1836 exhibit abstractions to the amount of 600,000l. or 700,000l., but what is the amount of the new returns I cannot yet know. The return is in three different parts, and the select committee for printing have ordered that two parts should be printed, and that the third, which contains the items, or its essence, should not. I suppose this has been caused by economy on the part of the committee. But if I had been informed, in proportion that the printing committee would not print the items, I Would hot have taken charge of the matter. In point of fact the return was originally moved for by Major Chetwynd, who took the same course which I have done. On looking over three or four pages of the return which is now to be printed, I find in each page that coins, bills 1229 of exchange, bank notes, money orders, cheques, drafts, chains, and patterns of silks, satins, and woollens have been abstracted, and I think one great cause of this is owing to the Post-office authorities not registering letters. I see two hon. Members present who were connected with the Post-office under the late Government, and who recommended improved registration. There is a great difference of opinion, report says, between the. Post-office and the Treasury, as to registration, and therefore I believe, the whole body of the people will thank the House for agreeing to my returns. The people never know what becomes of the money which they transmit by post; and I believe the letter Sorters, and letter carriers, and others in the Post-office, have got so expert in abstracting money out of letters, that there is no safety whatever in the transmission of money through the Post-office. 1 believe it is well Worth the while of this House, to inquire into the subject, and the expense of the returns would be as nothing compared with the security which the people would feel if they knew that transmission through the Post-office was properly conducted. There has been already enormous expense incurred in the making Up these returns. As to the motion which I have on the paper. I am perfectly indifferent personally how the House may deal with it. The hon. Member concluded by moving,— That the return, showing the applications Which have been made to the Post-office for letters which were missing, and which contained money or money's worth, which re-tarn was presented to this House on March 4th, be printed; or failing in this, that a complete abstract thereof be made and printed along with the return, which was moved for in connexion with the above, and which Was made to this House on the 18th of May, and has been ordered to be printed.

§ Sir George Clerk
opposed the motion, and said that the returns moved for would not be worth the expense. It would Be an unnecessary waste of the public money to furnish these returns, when there were already documents before the House, and accessible to the public, which contained all the information that could be afforded.

Mr. V. Smith
thought the motion of the hon. Gentleman much too extensive. It went much further than the return of the 4th of March. It also exceeded the terms of the motion the hon. Gentleman made at a former time, which was for an account Of the number of letters, from the 1230 5th of January, 1837, to the 5th of January, 1841, franked or unfranked, applied or not applied for, containing money bills, or other property known to have been secreted by the servants of the Post-office; but to the terms of that the hon. Baronet now added the words "or money's worth." But then, by going into the "applications" for letters, the hon. Gentleman would throw a great deal of undeserved imputation on the servants of the Post-office. Now, when persons applied for letters, and not getting them, alleged that they had been lost in the Post-office, the fact was that many of the letters were lost between the writing and the delivery, and many more were lost after they were delivered to the servants of the applicants. He must oppose the motion in its present shape, on account of the great expense it would throw on the public, and the House was bound to support the view of the Printing Committee, whose duty it was to practise economy as much as they might with prudence.

§ Mr. Hume
said, no doubt great abuses had been committed in the printing of re turns. But there was a great want felt by the public for such information as was now asked for; and if to this were added the advertisement issued by the Post-office respecting the safety of Post-office orders, and the ease with which they could be got, the value of the documents would be increased. But the whole mass of returns moved for by his hon. Friend would be too cumbersome; he would, therefore, recommend his hon. Friend to accept the abstract which had been offered to him.

§ Mr. F. T. Baring
fully recognised the importance of this subject; but there would be great difficulty in complying with the motion of his hon. Friend. However, he (Mr. Baring) thought an abstract would be of great value, and if the motion should have no other result than to make people more cautious in sending money and articles of value through the Post-office it would be of great benefit. He trusted it would extend the practice of Sending Post-office orders instead of money; and indeed, considering the exceedingly careless manner in which money was frequently Sent, it was too hard that people of the lower class, and scantily paid as many of the Post - office servants were —it was very unfortunate that they should be exposed to the temptations they now 1231 were through this negligence. He hoped, therefore, the advantages, facilities, and securities of the order and register systems would be fully impressed on the public. He admitted there might be some defects in the registry system, but it was a very difficult business, and it delayed the transmission of the letters considerably. He and his friends, for these reasons, fixed the fee at Is. at first, in the hope that when the machinery was extensively used and supported, they might be enabled to reduce it, which he hoped might soon be done.

§ The Chancellor of the Exchequer
concurred in the feeling and wishes expressed by the right hon. Gentleman. Nothing could promote the morality of the Post-office servants more than that people should cease from the practice of sending money, and transmit Post-office orders instead. When the facilities were made | generally known with which an order for any sum up to 51. might be procured; he hoped the practice of tempting poor people would soon be at an end-for the practice of sending money through the hands of the poor men who were in the service of the Post-office, was a system of temptation which needy men could not always resist. It should also, in fairness to this hardly worked class, be remembered that in the rapidity and quantity in which letters were sent, many of them, said to have been lost, were only mislaid by accident. As to missing letters the appearance was always worse than the reality, for though people would come to the office complaining that their letters had not reached, and though they would soon afterwards find those letters at home, they would not come back and say so. He would suggest the return should state the number of letters missing in each month, and the money they contained or were said to contain.

§ Mr. Wallace,
in reply, said, that the advice which he had received from the other side, he had himself given; the suggestion would be found in his motion; therefore, he had no thanks to give them. He would open one page by chance of the return. [[The hon. Member read a list of notes and money which had been stolen from the Post-office.] All this had been taken in one day. It happened that he knew a great deal about Post-office management, and doubted if the printing committee knew anything about it. It 1232 might be taken as a universal rule, whenever a bank note, or a sovereign, or gold passed into the Post-office, that it never was returned. Nobody ever heard of any property of this sort ever having been returned when demanded or inquired for; but he would admit to the Chanellor of the Exchequer, that when a letter contained a bill or property of that nature, which could be negotiated only with some difficulty, it might be recoverable, but there hardly was an instance of a letter containing coin which was once lost, having ever been recovered. He would appeal to his noble Friend, the Postmaster-general, if such was not the fact. He had no doubt, but that the Postmaster-general himself would wish to see the entire return published. He had newly came to the belief that it would be advisable to prohibit by law the sending of coin by letter. He would consent to take the abstract, although he felt that the abstract would not give the information which the return would give. He believed the system of plunder was so complete, and that the people at the Post-office could distinguish so well every letter containing money that nothing escaped them. He thought it was absurd to defend the conduct of the printing committee. Members were treated in the most cavalier way by the committee, and he thought he had just cause of complaint. He would accept the offer which had been made of the abstract, and withdraw his motion, in order to move for an abstract in place of the entire returns being printed.