HC Deb 05 April 1842 vol 61 cc1291-4
Mr. M. Sutton

moved for leave to bring in a bill to continue for a limited term the local turnpike acts, and to provide for the better regulation of turnpike trusts in England and Wales. In doing so, the hon. Gentleman observed, that considering the amount of debt on the turnpikes was as much as seven millions of money, and considering also the state of the trusts, and the effects of the increase in railway communication on the traffic of those roads, from which traffic the revenues of the trusts were derived, the House must be convinced of the propriety of introducing a measure having for its object the improvement of the security of the mortgagee, the maintenance and repair of the roads, and, if possible, the gradual and entire repayment of the debt. He did not intend to include in the provisions of the measure he now asked leave to introduce either those roads which were not under the management of trustees, or those the maintenance and repair of which were provided for by private acts; neither did he intend to include those trusts to which advances had been made by Exchequer-bill Loan Commissioners. A great benefit would be given to mortgagees in the improvement of their security if the Legislature would consent to continue the other local acts for a specified and certain term; and therefore, he proposed, first, to continue those local acts for the period of forty-one years. In the next place, he proposed to take away the power which mortgagees now had to seize the tolls and revenues of the trust when they thought fit so to do. By taking away the power of any single mortgagee of seizing the whole of the revenues of the trust (no matter what his claim might be, and though those revenues perhaps exceeded by a hundred fold or more the amount of the claim he had) nominally for the purpose of paying a rateable proportion to the other mortgagees as well as himself, but practically to be in possession of those revenues for six. months, they would be depriving him of the exercise of a power which had a tendency to throw the trust into a state of disorder, and perhaps of insolvency. To increase the security of mortgages, he proposed partially to divest the trustees of that power which they at pre- sent possessed of incurring fresh burdens, and negotiating fresh loans; not to take that power away entirely, but to prevent their exertion of it without the sanction of the executive Government. Instead of the mode adopted under existing acts, he pro posed that it should be incumbent upon the trustees to select from their own body finance committees, not exceeding seven or less than five in number, whose duty it should be, half yearly, to examine and audit the accounts of the revenue and expenditure of the trust, as well as to estimate the expenses to be incurred by the trust in the following half-year; those accounts and estimates to be transmitted by them to the Secretary of State for the Home Department, who should lay them, as at present, before Parliament. He pro posed also, not only that a certain half-yearly payment should be made to the mortgagee, which should be the first lien on the tolls, but that it should be incumbent on the treasurer of each trust to retain in his hands such part of the revenue of the trust as would be sufficient to meet the demands of the creditor, for the purpose of paying that creditor his demands, and for no other purpose; and if, as in some instances might be the case, the whole of the revenue of the trust might not be sufficient to meet these demands, then the treasurer should retain in his hands the whole of the tolls and pay a rateable proportion to the creditor. Such half yearly payment to the creditor he proposed should be 5 per cent, per annum, which sum was not to be considered as entirely in the nature of interest, but as par taking of the nature of interest and of the nature of a re-payment of the principle. Looking at the improvement in the security which this bill would give the mortgagees and all the other circumstances he had referred to, he was convinced that the rate of interest could not be fairly calculated at more than 4 per cent.; he proposed, there fore, that in no case should the interest paid to the mortgagee exceed 4 per cent., and that the remainder of the 5 per cent. should be considered as part payment of the principal of the debt, and he had calculated from the estimates of an eminent actuary that the payment of 1 per cent. per annum would, at the expiration of forty-one years, fairly and honestly repay that principal. He, believed, the provisions of his proposed bill would secure regular payment to the mortgagee, and that at the termination of forty-one years the mortgagee would not only receive the fair interest of his money, but be repaid the amount of his debt. This was, in fact, the main principle of the measure, but subsequent to the payment of the 5 per cent., the second lien on the tolls and revenues would be the maintenance and repair of the roads; and if after that there were any excess, he proposed, that it should be still applied to the further extinction of the debt. In conclusion, the hon. Gentleman observed, that his mea sure would, by timely interference, prevent the insolvency of the turnpike trusts, which would throw on the land the whole burden of maintaining and repairing the turnpike roads in general.

Colonel Sibthorp

said, he did not rise for the purpose of opposing the introduction of this bill; but when the hon. Member talked of forty-one years he fixed a period which few then present would survive. He could only say, that many persons had invested large sums, nearly 13,000,000l.,. he believed, in these trusts, in the hopes of making a provision for their families, a hope which was unhappily now falsified. The whole of the misfortunes, and the necessity for this bill, had arisen from the confounded system of railroads, which was overspreading the country. He (Colonel Sibthorp) had foretold this long ago; but he did not the less regret to see his pre dictions verified. He had only further to say, that he hoped every care would be taken of the interests of those unfortunate persons who bad embarked their capital in those trusts.

Mr. E. Turner

said, the turnpike trusts were in a very bad way, and be thought 4 per cent. interest would not be paid by the trusts unless assistance were given by the Government.

Mr. Manners Sutton

could not hold out any prospect of assistance from Government; but the creditors could be prevented calling for immediate repayment of their debts, as the security given under the new bill, as well as the interest proposed, would place them in a sufficiently favourable position.

Leave given.