HC Deb 17 March 1841 vol 57 cc325-9

Lord Granville Somerset moved that the Members for Monmouth be added to the Committee on the Severn Navigation Bill.

Mr. Labouchere

would offer the motion every opposition in his power. It might be proper that the House should alter its rules for the regulation of private business, but so long as these rules existed, they ought to be strictly adhered to. There were many practical difficulties which would arise, if the present motion was acceded to. There were other Gentlemen connected with the adjacent counties who had very naturally and properly given notice of similar motions, and which, if the present was acceded to, they could not refuse. On these grounds he should certainly oppose the motion.

Mr. H. Berkeley

said his constituents were deeply interested in the Bill, and he had voted for the second reading. He was, however, perfectly satisfied with the jurisdiction to which it had been referred. If the House thought it proper to add any other Member to the Committee, he should feel it his duty to move to add his own name.

Mr. G. Berkeley

said, the county of Gloucester was also deeply interested in the fate of the bill, and if the House found that its rules were bad, and worked injustice, the sooner they departed from them the better. It was a complete farce to refer such a bill to the Worcester list—every body knew how they would vote. He thought many more gentleman ought to be added to the committee. He would, therefore, cordially support the motion of the noble Lord,

Mr. Winnington

said, the bill had been very properly referred to the Worcester List, because all the works contemplated by the bill were in Worcestershire.

Mr. Easthope

opposed the motion. He thought the county of Monmouth had no such interest in the undertaking as should induce the House to contravene the Standing Orders in behalf of its Members.

Mr. Hope

said, the hon. Member for Worcester had admitted, that there was partiality in the Worcester Members with respect to this bill, because he said there would be eighteen against, and twelve for, the bill. Such an admission was an argument why the other interest should be represented, They did not desire to obtain a preponderating interest, in point of numbers. A great deal had been said about the practice of the House. That was the first Session, and the first case of any importance, in which the Standing Orders had come into question. On former occasions, it was usual to have all the Members upon the committee who might be supposed to be interested.

Sir Eardley Wilmot

proposed the Members for Birmingham, because he believed that that neighbourhood was interested, and he thought it fair that they should be appointed.

Lord G. Somerset

said, the hon. Member for Worcestershire had assumed that the interest of Monmouthshire was adverse to the bill. The county of Monmouth was to contribute very largely to the formation of these works, and should, therefore, have a voice in the arrangements with respect to them. If the county of Worcester would have the goodness to pay for the works, they would then be allowed to monopolise the whole matter. All he wished was to have a committee, which should fairly discuss the merits of the question.

Mr. C. Wynn

contended, that a bill like the present, for regulating the navigation of the whole course of a large river, could not be considered in the light of a strictly Local Bill.

Mr. Warburton

thought the House ought to adhere to the Standing Orders. To the Members connected with the locality immediately affected by the bill, there had been added a sufficient number of Members unconnected with it, to secure impartiality. If additional Members for places interested in the bill were put upon the committee; then a corresponding number of important Members should also be added. If the Standing Orders were improper, they ought to alter them, but whilst they existed they ought not to break through them for any individual case.

The House then divided:—Ayes 84; Noes 117: Majority 33.

List of the AYES.
Ainsworth, P. Mackenzie, W. F.
Attwood, W. Mackinnon, W. A.
Baillie, Colonel Martin, J.
Baldwin, C. B. Marton, G.
Berkeley, hon. C. Mathew, G. B.
Bethell, R. Maunsell, T. P.
Boldero, H. G. Milnes, R. M.
Bolling, W. Morgan, O.
Botfield, B. Morris, D.
Broadley, H. Neeld, J.
Broadwood, H. Neeld, J.
Bruce, Lord E. Nicholl, J.
Burr, H. O'Brien, W. S.
Cholmondeley, hn. H. Parker, M.
Clerk, Sir G. Pechell, Captain
Cochrane, Sir T. J. Philips, M.
Courtenay, P. Phillpotts, J,
Dalrymple, Sir A. Pigot, R.
De Horsey, S. H. Planta, right hon. J.
Douglas, Sir C. E. Plumptre, J. P.
Dunbar, G. Polhill, F.
Duncombe, T. Pollock, Sir F.
Duncombe, hon. W. Richards, R.
Fielden, J. Rushbrooke, Colonel
Fector, J. M. Salwey, Colonel
Filmer, Sir E. Scholefield, J.
Fitzalan, Lord Sheppard, T.
Fitzroy, hon. H. Smith, A.
Forester, hon. G. Smyth, Sir G. H.
Gaskell, J. Milnes Smythe, hon. G.
Gisborne, T. Stansfield, W. R. C.
Gladstone, W. E. Stuart, Lord J.
Gladstone, J. N. Thompson, Mr. Ald.
Gore, O. J. R. Trotter, J.
Guest, Sir J. Welby, G. E.
Hamilton, Lord C. Wilmot, Sir J. E.
Hodgson, F. Wood, Colonel
Hodgson, R. Wood, B.
Holmes, W. Wynn, rt. hn. C. W.
Hope, hon. C. Yates, J. A.
Hope, H. T.
Humphery, J. TELLERS.
Jones, J. Somerset, Lord G.
Leader, J. T. Clive, R.
List of the NOES.
Alston, R. Brownrigg, S.
Antrobus, E. Bruges, W. H. L.
Barnard, E. G. Buller, E.
Barneby, J. Bulwer, Sir L.
Bentinck, Lord G. Busfeild, W.
Berkeley, hon. H. Byng, G.
Bewes, T. Byng, rt. hon. G. S.
Blackett, C. Campbell, Sir J.
Bowes, J. Chalmers, P.
Brabazon, Lord Clive, E. B.
Brocklehurst, J. Collier, J.
Brotherton, J. Craig, W. G.
Dalmeny, Lord Miles, W.
Darby, G. Miles, P. W. S.
Dashwood, G. H. Norreys. Sir D. J.
Davies, Colonel O'Connell, J.
Dennistoun, J. O'Connell, M. J.
Divett, E. Packe, C. W.
Dundas, C. W. D. Paget, Lord A.
East, J. B. Pakington, J. S.
Easthope, J. Parker, R. T.
Egerton, W. T. Patten, J. W.
Elliot, hon. J. E. Pattison, J.
Estcourt, T. Peel, rt. hon. Sir R.
Evans, Sir De L. Praed, W. T.
Evans, W. Reid, Sir J. R.
Feilden, W. Rice, E. R.
Ferguson, Colonel Rundle, J.
Gillon, W. D. Rushout, G.
Gordon, R. Seymour, Lord
Goulburn, rt. hon. H. Shaw, rt. hon. F.
Graham, rt. hn. Sir J. Smith, J. A.
Greene, T. Smith, G. R.
Grimsditch, T. Smith, R. V.
Grosvenor, Lord R. Somerville, Sir W. M.
Hawes, B. Sotheron, T. E.
Hawkes, T. Standish, C.
Hawkins, J. H. Stanley, Lord
Hayes, Sir E. Staunton, Sir G. T.
Hector, C. J. Steuart, R.
Hill, Lord A. M, C. Stewart, J.
Hindley, C. Stock, Mr. Serjeant
Hobhouse, T. B. Strickland, Sir G.
Hollond, R. Strutt, E
Houldsworth, T. Tancred, H. W.
Howard, P. H. Thorneley, T.
Howick, Viscount Troubridge, Sir E. T.
Hutton, R. Turner, E.
Inglis, Sir R. H. Verney, Sir H.
Irton, S. Villiers, hon. C. P.
James, W. Vivian, rt.hn. Sir.R.H.
Jermyn, Earl Warburton, H.
Labouchere, rt. hn. H. White, A.
Lascelles, hon. W. S. Wilbraham, G.
Lemon, Sir C. Williams, W.
Lockhart, A. Winnington, Sir T. E.
Lowther, J. H. Wood, G. W.
Lygon, hon. General TELLERS.
Marsland, H. Grey, Sir G.
Maule, hon. Fox Winnington, H. J.