§ The sum of 127,234l. being proposed, to defray the expenses of the office of Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs,
§ Mr. Goulburnsaid, that he was surprised to see the sum of 64,000l. charged in the estimate for this department for postage, when the sum charged for postage for the Treasury was only 6,400l., and that for the Colonial department, only 9,300l. The actual amount of correspondence in either of these departments, was certainly as great as in the Foreign Office, and it could not, be said that there had been such a reduction in the colonial postage as to account in any manner for the great difference in the present estimates. Perhaps, the object was to increase the amount of postage to meet the falling-off in the others. He wished to ask whether this amount was estimated in the probable produce of the revenue by his right hon. Friend opposite, when he lately stated his views on the subject.
§ The Chancellor of the Exchequerregretted that the right hon. Member was not in the House when he made his statement. The estimates on which he had relied were really bonâ fide estimates. He had said that he should throw aside those postage accounts of the different Government offices, but, at the same time, he had stated, that it would not be unimportant that they should be laid before the House, for the purpose of doing away with old abuses, by compelling each department to give in estimates for which they would be responsible. The public, he had thought, would be benefitted by such a course, and he was not now certain whether this debate had not confirmed his anticipations. The present estimate, however, was not furnished by the department, but by the Post-office, and he had every reason to believe, that the actual postage would be something less than this estimate. The House, moreover, should be aware that the postage of the Foreign-office was quite different from that of other offices.
§ Mr. Goulburnwas satisfied that the correspondence of the Treasury was as great as that of the Foreign-office. He did not dispute that great abuses prevailed formerly in the messengers carrying many things in their bags besides letters; but he pledged himself that there could not be such a difference between 1194 the postage for the two departments as this estimate implied; and he should say, with confidence, that in agreeing to this vote for 127,234l. he was giving this sum, estimated for the postage, to the Secretary, to lay it out on any one of the heads to which the vote applied. He would repeat, that the noble Secretary might legally apply this sum to any one head of the department. They were told that this estimate had come, not from the Foreign-office, but from the Post-office. This was the first time he had heard that each department was not to be responsible for its own estimates. He would repeat, that when the postage for the Treasury was 6,400l., for the Colonial-office, 9,300l., and for the Foreign-office, 64,000l., there was no saving, at least, in the latter department.
§ Viscount Palmerstoncould not compare the amount of correspondence between the different offices, as he knew that of his own office only. It mattered very little what things beside the actual correspondence were carried by the messengers, as the bags were not charged by weight. But the system being different at present, he could assure the House, that the expense amounted to a large sum, and he was now making regulations for the purpose of preventing the practices prevailing in former times. He could not call them abuses, as there was really no abuse in allowing the messengers to carry many things in their bags beside the correspondence, when their doing so interfered in no manner with their conveyance of the latter.
§ Mr. Humefound in these estimates 40,000l. for messengers, and 64,000l. for postage—in all, 104,000l. for correspondence. He could not understand how there could be such a sum necessary for carrying on the correspondence of that one department; or how, when the messengers cost 40,000l., the postage should cost 64.000l. He thought that the best way would be to call at the end of the year for the accounts of the different departments. The real estimate for this department was 136,000l., as there was a sum of 9,000l. more to be required for salaries.
§ Mr. Warburtonthought that this discussion showed how very useful was the suggestion made by the Post-office committee, that all correspondence between the offices should form part of a separate 1195 estimate. It appeared that there were not less than seven millions of penny letters, which had hitherto, he presumed, been made matter of franking.
§ Lord J. Russellsaid, that no fair comparison could be made between these bulky despatches and penny letters.
§ Mr. Warburtonasked what was the basis upon which this calculation was founded? Was it upon the old rate of letters, or upon the loose estimate of 1d. per ounce? If it were founded upon that, the former estimates ought to have been six-fold what they were.
§ Mr. Kemblethought it would be well if this vote were postponed, that the House might have a more satisfactory account.
§ The Chancellor of the Exchequersaid, that he should be very happy to postpone the vote; but he could give the House no further information upon this subject.
§ Vote agreed to.