HC Deb 24 July 1840 vol 55 cc970-3

On the vote of 11,300l. for law expenses in carrying into effect the Act for Improving the Navigation of the Shannon being proposed,

Mr. Goulburn

thought this charge required explanation; it was an enormous sum for one year's expenditure in carrying into execution one act of Parliament.

Mr. R. Gordon

assured the right hon. Gentleman that the charge had excited the attention of the Treasury, but it com- prehended the whole expense, including 1,512 valuations, upwards of 1,000 conveyances, and 300 judgments and awards. He was assured that under the ordinary powers of inland navigation acts, the expense would have been five times as great.

Mr. Goulburn

was surprised at the amount of the charge for conveyances, since every one knew that the principal expenses of a conveyance were the charge for drawing and the cost of the stamp. Now, a short form of conveyance, consisting of only ten lines, was prescribed and set out in the act, and no stamp duty was payable.

Mr. E. Tennent

thought he could explain the amount of the charge. The river ran by the property of Lord Monteagle, and his solicitor, Mr. Barrington, was the solicitor employed by the commission. The ordinary routine of business was set aside, and instead of Mr. Stewart, the solicitor of the Board of Works, being employed, a new office was created for Mr. Spring Rice's attorney, to whom the committee was now asked to vote this sum of 11,300l.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer

said, he had never heard a more unjustifiable attack made upon parties who were not present to defend themselves. He was surprised that an hon. Member in an assembly of gentlemen should suffer himself to be so far carried away. He begged to give a distinct contradiction to the inference which the hon. Member had drawn. Mr. Barrington was employed in the original inquiry, and when the work was undertaken he was continued in the performance of the services which were then required. The same expenses were paid to Mr. Barrington as would have been paid to the solicitor to the Board of Works, and no saving would have been effected by employing the latter. No hon. Member who had had any experience in canal or railway companies would consider the charges unreasonable.

Mr. E. Tennent

said, that in the whole of this large bill of costs the money out of pocket did not exceed 250l; the balance, 11,050l., was received by Mr. Barrington, but in making these observations he begged to say that he did not mean to cast the slightest imputation upon that Gentleman. He found fault with the system, not with Mr. Barrington, of whose character he could not speak too highly.

Viscount Morpeth

said, that the reason Mr. Barrington had been preferred to Mr. Stewart was, that he had all along been employed in the works connected with the improvement of the Shannon.

Colonel Sibthorp

considered the whole of this proceeding a downright humbugging job. He thought that the country had great reason to complain of the manner in which the business of Parliament was hurried over at this period of the session, and especially he thought there was reason to complain of the manner in which the miscellaneous estimates were disposed of; for his part, if no one more competent to the task than he was, took up the subject, he should in a future session move that the miscellaneous estimates be referred to a select committee.

Mr. M. O'Ferrall

observed, that Mr. Stewart's charges would have been equally high with those of Mr. Barrington, had the former gentleman been employed in preference to the latter. The charge as it now stood was a reduced charge, and the expenses had certainly been estimated on the most economical scale. There could be no doubt that Mr. Stewart considered the duties connected with the river Shannon to be quite distinct from his duties as solicitor to the Board of Works, for he came to this country and made interest to obtain the appointment, which had eventually been given to Mr. Barrington, which he certainly would not have done if he had not thought that he was to receive a separate remuneration for the business connected with the Shannon.

Sir R. Peel

said, that if the solicitor to the Board of Works received a salary from the state, the public were entitled to the whole of his time, and that gentleman was bound to render all the service in his power to the Government. If the legal business of the Board of Works were conducted like that of the Stamp-office, for example, the solicitor would not be entitled to charge costs as between attorney and client.

Viscount Morpeth

agreed with the right hon. Baronet that the Government in employing a public officer did purchase the whole of his time; but the improvement of the Shannon had been intrusted to a body of commissioners quite distinct from the Board of Works.

Mr. Alderman Thompson moved that the sum of 5,000l. be granted on account,

Viscount Morpeth

hoped, that as these expenses had been actually incurred, and as the disbursements would have to undergo the supervision of the regularly constituted boards, the committee would not agree to reduce the vote.

The committee divided—Ayes 26; Noes 58: Majority 32.

List of the AYES.
Acland, T. D. Henniker, Lord
Archdall, M. Hodgson, R.
Baldwin, C. B. Hume, Joseph
Boldero, H. G. Kemble, H.
Brooke, Sir A. B. Lowther, J. H.
Brownrigg, S. Neeld, J.
Cochrane, Sir T. J. Peel, rt. hon. Sir R.
Douglas, Sir C. E. Praed, W. T.
Dunbar, G. Somerset, Lord G.
Evans, Sir De Lacy Tennent, J. E.
Gladstone, W. E. Vere, Sir C. B.
Gordon, hon. Capt.
Goulburn, rt. hn. H. TELLERS.
Graham, rt. hon. Sir J. Thompson, Mr. Ald.
Grimsditch, T. Sibthorp, Colonel
List of the NOES.
Adam, Admiral Lemon, Sir C.
Aglionby, H. A. Lushington, C.
Alston, R. Macaulay, rt. hn. T. B.
Anson, hon. Colonel Maule, hon. Fox
Baines, E. Morpeth, Viscount
Baring, rt. hon. F. T. Norreys, Sir D. J.
Bellew, R. M. O'Ferrall, R. M.
Bowes, J. Paget, F.
Bridgeman, H. Palmerston, Viscount
Brocklehurst, J. Pigot, D. R.
Brotherton, J. Price, Sir R.
Campbell, Sir J, Rawdon, Col. J. D.
Chalmers, P. Roche, W.
Chichester, Sir B. Russell, Lord J.
Clay, W. Rutherfurd, rt. hn. A.
Clive, E. B. Sanford, E. A.
D'Eyncourt, rt. hon. C. T. Seale, Sir J. H.
Sheil, rt. hon. R. L.
Duke, Sir J. Smith, R. V.
Elliot, hon. J. E. Stanley, hon. E. J.
Ewart, W. Steuart, R.
French, F. Thornely, T.
Gordon, R. Vigors, N. A.
Grey, rt. hon. Sir G. Villiers, hon. C. P.
Hawes, B. Warburton, H.
Hobhouse, rt. hn. Sir J. Wood, G. W.
Hobhouse, T. B. Wood, B.
Hodges, T. L. Wyse, T.
Howard, hn. C. W. G. TELLERS.
Labouchere, rt. hn. H. Parker, J.
Langdale, hon. C. Tufnell, Mr.

Vote agreed to.