HC Deb 31 May 1839 vol 47 cc1226-31

House in committee on the Prisons (Scotland) Bill.

On the first clause, appointing the General Board of Directors of Prisons,

Mr. Colquhoun

moved, as an amend- ment, that the sheriffs of nine counties in which circuit courts are held should ex officio be members of the board.

Mr. F. Maule

opposed the amendment.

Sir G. Clark

supported it.

The committee divided on the amendment:—Ayes 56; Noes 109: Majority 53.

List of the AYES.
Acland, T. D. Jackson, Mr. Sergeant
Archdall, M. Jermyn, Earl
Baker, E. Johnstone, H.
Baring, H. B. Jones, J.
Baring, hon. W. B. Kemble, H.
Blair, J. M. Kilburne, Viscount
Broadley, H Lowther, hon. Colonel
Canning, rt. hn. Sir S. Mackenzie, T.
Codrington, C. W. Marsland, T.
Cole, Viscount Neeld, J.
Dick, Q. Pakington, J. S.
D'Israeli, B. Perceval, Colonel
Fielden, W. Perceval, hon. G. J.
Fector, J. Planta, right hon. J.
Fremantle, Sir T. Plumptre, J. P.
Gladstone, W. E. Rae, rt. hon. Sir W.
Gordon, hon. Captain Round, J.
Grant, F. W. Rushbrooke, Colonel
Greene, T. Somerset, Lord G.
Grimsditch, T. Stormont, Viscount
Hale, R. B. Thomas, Colonel H.
Heneage, G. W. Thompson, Alderman
Henniker, Lord Waddington, H. S.
Hepburn, Sir T. B. Wood, Colonel T.
Hinde, J. H. Wood, T.
Hodgson, R. Young, Sir W.
Hope, hon. C.
Houstoun, G. TELLERS.
Hurt, F. Clerk, Sir G.
Inglis, Sir R. H, Colquhoun, J. C.
List of the NOES.
Abercromby, hn. G. R. Duke, Sir J,
Adam, Admiral Duncombe, T.
Aglionby, Major Dundas, F.
Archbold, R. Elliot, hon. J. E.
Baines, E. Ellice, E.
Bannerman, A. Ellis, W.
Baring, F. T. Evans, G,
Beamish, F. B. Evans, W.
Bellew, R. M. Ferguson, R.
Blake, M. J. Finch, F.
Blewitt, R. J. Fleetwood, Sir P. H.
Bridgeman, H. Fort, J.
Brocklehurst, J. Grattan, H.
Busfeild, W. Hastie, A.
Chalmers, P. Hawes, B.
Chester, H. Hayter, W. G.
Collier, J. Heathcoat, J.
Cowper, hon. W. F. Hector, C. J.
Craig, W. G. Hobhouse, right hon.
Curry, Mr. Sergeant Sir J,
Dalmeny, Lord Hobhouse, T. B.
Divett, E. Hume, J.
Dunkin, Sir R. S. Hutt, W,
James, W. Russell, Lord J.
Langdale, hon. C. Russell, Lord
Lennox, Lord A. Rutherford, rt. hon. A.
Loch, J. Scholefield, J.
Lushington, C. Sheil, R. L.
Macleod, R. Smith, B.
Macnamara, Major Smith, R. V.
McTaggart, J. Somerville, Sir W. M.
Marshall, W. Speirs, A.
Marsland, H. Stanley, hon. E. J.
Melgund, Viscount Stanley, W. O.
Morpeth, Viscount Steuart, R.
Morris, D. Style, Sir C.
O'Brien, C. Tancred, H. W,
O'Connell, D. Thomson, rt. hn. C. P.
O'Connell, J. Thornely, Thomas
O'Connell, M. Troubridge, Sir E. T.
O'Connell, M. Vigors, N. A.
O'Ferrall, R. M. Villiers, hon. C. P.
Paget, Lord A. Wakley, T.
Palmerston, Viscount Walker, R.
Parker, J. Wallace, R.
Parnell, rt. hn. Sir H. Warburton, H.
Pease, J. White, A.
Pechell, Captain White, S.
Philips, M. Williams, W.
Pigot, D. R. Williams, W. A.
Power, J. Winnington, T. E.
Redington, T. N. Wood, G. W.
Roche, E. B. Yates, J. A,
Roche, W.
Roche, Sir D. TELLERS.
Rolfe, Sir R, M. Maule, F.
Rundle, Lord J. Kinnaird, hon. A. F.

On the clause being again put,

Sir W. Rae

objected to the Inspector-General of Prisons in Scotland being a member of the general board.

Mr. Hawes

could not see what objection there was to it. The Inspector-general was the man likely to possess most information on the subject of prisons, and, as there were many Members of the Board who could not always attend, the attendance of the inspector would be more desirable.

Mr. Colquhonn

said, that the remarks of the hon. Member would go more to prove the inefficiency of the board than the propriety of making the inspector a member of it. The inspector ought to be under the control of the board.

Lord Stormont

thought, that as the inspector was the servant of the board he would, by being made a member of it, be made a judge in his own case.

Mr. F. Maule

said, the inspector was responsible to the Government, as he had to report to it all circumstances connected with the state of prisons in Scotland. He would be an honorary member of the board, and should not influence its decisions. He thought that his being a member of the board would he a sort of guarantee that the board did its duty.

Sir W. Rae

moved, as an amendment, that the words "inspectors of prisons" be omitted from the clause.

The Committee divided on the original question:—Ayes 101; Noes 51:—Majority 50.

Clause agreed to.

On clause 18 being proposed, which relates to the constitution of local boards,

Mr. Hope

proposed an amendment, to the effect that no man should be a member of these local boards, unless he were a Commissioner of Supply and also a Justice of Peace.

The Committee divided on the amendment:—Ayes 22; Noes 54;—Majority 32.

List of the AYES.
Ballie, Colonel H. Houston, G.
Blair, J. Johnstone, H.
Bramston, T. W. Lowther, hon. Col.
Clerk, Sir G. Mackenzie, T.
Cole, Lord Viscount Pringle, A.
Douglas, Sir C. E. Rae, rt. hon. Sir W.
Gordon, hon. Captain Sheppard, T.
Grant, F. W. Sinclair, Sir G.
Hale, R. B. Stormont, Lord Vis.
Hepburn, Sir T. B.
Hinde, J. H. TELLERS.
Hodgson, R. Hope, Mr. G. W.
Hope, hon. C. Colquhoun, Mr. J. C.
List of the NOES.
Adam, Admiral Kinnaird, hon. A. F,
Alston, R. Langdale, hon. C.
Baring, F. T. Loch, J.
Beamish, F. B. Lushington, rt. hon. S.
Blake, M. J. Macleod, R.
Brodie, W. B. McTaggart, J.
Brotherton, J. O'Connell, M.
Busfeild, W. Palmerston, Lord Vis.
Cayley, E. S. Parker, J.
Craig, W. G. Parnell, rt. hn. Sir H.
Duke, Sir J. Pigot, D. R.
Dundas, C. W. D. Rolfe, Sir R. M.
Dundas, F. Rundle, J.
Dundas, Sir R. Rutherford, rt. hn. A.
Elliott, hon. J. E. Sheil, R. L.
Ellice, E. Smith, R. V,
Evans, W. Stanley, hon. E. J.
Ferguson, R. Stuart, V.
Fleetwood, Sir P. H. Strutt, E.
Gillon, W. D. Talbot, C. R. M.
Grey, rt. hon. Sir G. Vigors, N. A.
Harland, W. C. Wakley, T.
Hastie, A. Wallace, R.
Hawes, B. Warburton, H.
Hobhouse, r. h. Sir J. Wilbraham, G.
Hobhouse, T. B. Wood, G. W.
Hume, J. TELLERS,
Hutt, W. Maule, F.
Ingestrie, Lord Vis, Steuart, R.

Clause agreed to; as were also clauses 19, 20, 21, and 22.

House resumed. Committee to sit again.

[We insert the Lists of the first and the last Divisions. The second so closely resembles the first, that it is not necessary to repeat it.]