ARMING OF CHARTISTS. (Hansard, 15 May 1839)

§ Mr. Williams Wynn
could not help expressing his surprise that so long an adjournment of the House should be proposed while the internal state of the country was so agitated. Six months had now elapsed since certain parties had recommended the people generally to procure arms. They knew that in different parts of the country those recommendations had been carried into effect, that fire arms had been provided, and that pikes had been made to a very great extent. Up to the present moment, they were publicly sold, and no steps had been taken to put an end to it. He had hoped that before that time the noble Lord who was charged with the care of internal affairs would have brought forward some measure on the subject, or, at all events, that he would have stated what the feelings of Government were upon the matter. Deadly weapons had been provided by a large number of people in the country, and it was no wonder that special constables should show some reluctance in the discharge of their duties, they being armed only with the weapon provided by law for a constable. He was not afraid of the ultimate success of the parties who were misleading the people. What he was afraid of was, that if this arming continued unchecked, it would lead to a lamentable degree of bloodshed. In his opinion the House was not doing its duty by consenting to such a long adjournment without taking some measures for strengthening the hands of the magis- 1026 trates, in the circumstances in which the country was now placed.

§ Lord John Russell
had to state that throughout the period alluded to, which had been a most anxious one, the Government had not been unmindful of what was going on; but he had thought that it was better to rely on the existing law than to come down to that House for other measures, without a positive and imperious necessity for doing so, because the objects of the persons influencing the minds of the people, and inciting them to arm, were so clearly mischievous—so many of their acts so clearly exposed them to the penalties of the law, that it was impossible that they could meet with any general sympathy. He had always found, however, that when extraordinary measures were taken in Parliament in such a case, a sympathy was created, and a jealousy excited with regard to the constitution, which ought not to be suspended without absolute necessity. Still he was not prepared to say, that it might not be necessary to propose some measure to Parliament with regard to arms in the hands of evil-disposed persons. He was of opinion, however, that when the necessity arose it would be far better to introduce the measure at once, and to ask Parliament to direct its immediate and unceasing attention to the subject, than to give a long notice with respect to it; or, after having brought it forward, to postpone its further consideration for a considerable time. With regard to the measures already taken, he must say that on two occasions, when her Majesty's Ministers had advised her Majesty to issue proclamations regarding meetings of an illegal character, meetings held by night with torches under circumstances of danger and terror, and meetings which were attended by persons having pikes and bludgeons, each time those proclamations were issued the most salutary effects had been produced. He felt most undoubtedly that the responsibility was very great in taking measures to arrest, and if possible to repress, the disposition to disturbance that had been exhibited. The subject had been a frequent matter of consultation between himself and the Attorney-general, and he had likewise frequently brought the question before the Cabinet; and it appeared to him that the course adopted, and the views taken with respect to the general state of the country, were more likely ultimately to produce a return to peace, than if the Government had at once proposed measures of an extraordinary description.

§ Sir H. Verney
wished, in reference to the subject which the noble Lord had now brought forward, to ask whether it was his intention in the course of the present session to introduce any measure for the establishment of a more effective rural police? He thought such a measure would be calculated to give great satisfaction to the country.

Mr. Attwood
wished to know whether he understood the noble Lord right, when he supposed him to say that it was the intention of the Government to introduce further penal enactments. [No, no.] He thought the Government had done quite enough in putting in force the present law of the country. With regard to arms, he knew something about them, and he did not believe there had been fifty muskets or fifty pikes bought in England. He did not believe that the people of England had gone mad enough for that, or that they had ever thought of arming themselves. He was convinced they knew too well where their strength lay to take up arms. He was sure there had been a great deal of exaggeration on the subject, and he most earnestly urged upon her Majesty's Ministers and the House not to adopt any measure that would be calculated to excite the people to oppose the laws. If the people were outraged, the time might come when they might assume a far different appearance. These appeals to arms proceeded from the "intense eloquence" of some Irish speakers, and had been used by Tories, Radicals, and Neutrals throughout the country, as all the papers testified.

§ Lord John Russell
thought it might be necessary to take some measures for the restriction of that which was an abuse of the rights secured by the Bill of Rights. It was, undoubtedly, true that every person had a right to have arms in his own defence; but the arming of a portion of the population, exhibiting and brandishing those arms to the terror and alarm of her Majesty's subjects, was an abuse of the right, and one which it might be necessary to meet by legislative enactment. The hon. Member said he did not believe there was any arming to any considerable extent. Certainly the information which be (Lord J. Russell) had from the town which the hon. Member represented, and other towns, would lead him to suppose there had been no very considerable quantity of arms made by the regular manufacturers, and the chief part of the sale which had taken place had been for exportation. But there had been wea- 1028 pons of a dangerous nature made by persons who were neither regular gun-makers nor manufacturers of arms. Whilst he wished, on one hand, to guard the House against any exaggerated notion of there being large bodies of men regularly armed, on the other hand he believed there were a considerable number of persons in possession of very dangerous and offensive weapons.

§ Mr. Hume
believed, that the agitation which now existed had been caused by a few individuals, and that the bulk of those who had assembled had been mislead. He trusted that it would be found that a great deal of the alarm which existed had been exaggerated. But it was the duty of the noble Lord and his colleagues to consider, whether the masses and the millions of the country had not just ground of complaint, and to endeavour to remove it. That would be a more likely way to prevent these evils than having recourse to any modification of the laws now in existence.