HC Deb 03 July 1839 vol 48 cc1157-8
Mr. Fox Maule

moved the order of the day for the House to resolve itself into Committee to take into further consideration the report of this bill.

Sir W. Rae

said, that the bill was so changed in its character since it was last before the House, that he felt bound to call the attention of hon. Members to what its provisions now really were. As regarded the general state of prisons in Scotland, and the improvement of them, he believed that no difference existed. The great question was, as to the manner in which those improvements were to be carried into effect. It had been proposed by her Majesty's Government that three general prisons should be established in Scotland. Now hon. Members on that side of the House thought that three general prisons in Scotland were unnecessary. Another objection was, that it proposed to make a general assessment throughout Scotland, without any reference to the expense which might be incurred by each county. In his opinion, in Scotland as well as in England, each county should bear the expense of its own prisoners. All the alterations, however had been resisted in the bill, which he and his Friends had proposed in Committee. Their opposition had been unsuccessful. Another day had been fixed, and they felt they were exposing themselves to the imputation of endeavouring to defeat a measure for the general improvement of Scotch prisons. Under these circumstances, in order to prevent misunderstanding, he had put on paper a plan by which they proposed to accomplish the same ends, and which would not be open to the objections of which he had complained. He had transmitted a copy of it to the Home Office, and the terms proposed had been agreed to. Such being the case nothing now remained but to put the measure into proper shape. The terms agreed to were, that one dépôt should be established, to the fitting up of which the 10,000l al- ready voted should be applied. An additional 20,000l. was to be assessed on all Scotland, in order to complete the fittings up; the expenses of the prisoners in the dépôt were to be defrayed by the towns by which they were to be sent. The expenses of the local prisons were to fall entirely on the counties. Under these circumstances, he did not wish to throw any obstructions in the way of the Bill.

Mr. Fox Maule

said, this Bill proceeded on the same principle as other bills that had passed the House, and which had not met with any opposition.

The House went into Committee.

On clause 64, repealing the Acts previously passed relating to prisons being put,

Mr. Hume

complained that it did not specify the Acts which it proposed to repeal.

The Lord Advocate

observed, that it distinctly went to repeal all Acts since 1598.

Mr. Hume

thought that that only made it the more objectionable. He should oppose it.

The Committee divided on the question that the clause stand part of the bill:—Ayes 44: noes 17:—Majority 27.

List of the AYES.
Bannerman, A. Macaulay, T. B.
Baring, F. T. Macleod, R.
Barnard, E. G. Marsland, H.
Barry, G. S. Melgund, Lord Visct.
Bewes, T. O'Connell, J.
Blake, M. J. Parker, J.
Blake, W. J. Parnell, rt. hon. Sir H.
Brotherton, J. Pendarves, E. W. W.
Bruges, W. H. L. Pigot, D. R.
Busfeild W. Rundle, J.
Butler, hon. Col. Sinclair, Sir G.
Cayley, E. S. Stansfield, W. R.
Chalmers, P. Steuart, R.
Craig, W. G. Stewart, J.
Curry, Mr. Serg. Talfourd, Mr. Serg.
Dalmeny Lord Troubridge, Sir E. T.
Davies, Colonel Vigors, N. A.
Donkin, Sir R. S. Wilbrabam, G.
Hastie, A. Williams, W. A.
Hobhouse, T. B. Wood, C.
Hodges, T. L.
Howick, Lord Visct. TELLERS.
Kinnaird, hon. A. F. Maule, F.
Lushington, rt. hon. S. The Lord Advocate.
List of the NOES.
Arbuthnott, hon. H. Hepburne, Sir T. B.
Blair, J. Hope, hon. C.
Clerk, Sir G. Hope, G. W.
Gordon, hon. Capt. Lockhart, A. M.
Grunt, F. W. Mackenzie, T.
Greene, T. Pease, J.
Pringle, A. Warburton, H.
Rae, rt. hon. Sir W. TELLERS.
Stormont, Lord Visc. Hume, J.
Wallace, R. Gillon, W. D.

Other clauses agreed to.

The House resumed. The Report to be received.

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