HC Deb 18 May 1838 vol 42 cc1421-3

The House resolved itself into Committee on the Prisons (Scotland) Bill.

On Clause 2, empowering her Majesty's Government to nominate, besides those named in the clause, seven other persons to constitute the Board of Directors of Prisons in Scotland,

Mr. Colquhoun

moved as an amendment, that instead of the "seven other persons" proposed, nine persons be nominated severally to the general board from the local boards of nine of the principal counties of Scotland, in which circuit courts are held. By this infusion, much local knowledge would be added to the general board, which it could not possess under the form proposed by this clause.

Mr. F. Maule

opposed the amendment, on the ground, that the seven individuals to be nominated by her Majesty's Government, chiefly noble Lords of the other House of Parliament, were unexceptionable, and could not be supposed to be actuated by any prejudice whatever in their capacity of directors.

Sir G. Clerk

admitted the unexceptionable character of those individuals, but supported the amendment of his hon. Friend, as he thought it would be much more advisable to have a mixture of persons from the different counties in Scotland, in order to render the general board a popular elective body.

The Committee divided on the Amendment:—Ayes 50; Noes, 78: Majority 28.

List of the AYES.
Acland, T. D. Dunbar, G.
Arbuthnot, hon. H. Forrester, hon. G.
Baillie, Colonel Gibson, T.
Blair, J. Gordon, hon. Captain
Broadley, H. Goulburn, rt. hon. H.
Chute, W. L. W. Graham, rt. hn. Sir J.
Clerk, Sir G. Grimsditch, T.
Cresswell, C. Hawkes, T.
Darby, G. Hepburn, Sir T. B.
Douglas, Sir C. E. Hodgson, R.
Duffield, T. Hotham, Lord
Houstoun, G. Pringle, A.
Hurt, F. Round, C. G.
Jackson, Sergeant Round, J.
James, Sir W. C. Rushbrooke, Colonel
Johnstone, H. Shaw, right hon. F.
Jones, J. Sheppard, T.
Kelly, F. Sinclair, Sir G.
Lockhart, A. M. Somerset, Lord G.
Lowther, hon. Colonel Stuart, H.
Mackenzie, T. Stuart, Lord J.
Mackenzie, W. F. Verner, Colonel
Manners, Lord C. S. Waddington, H. S.
Maxwell, H.
Monypenny, T. G. TELLERS.
Nicholl, J. Colquhoun, J. C.
Perceval, Colonel Hope, G. W.
List of the NOES.
Abercromby, hn. G. R. Macleod, R.
Adam, Admiral Marsland, Viscount
Aglionby, Major Melgund, Viscount
Archbold, R. Morris, D.
Baines, E. Murray, rt. hon. J. A.
Bannerman, A. O'Brien, C.
Beamish, F. B. O'Connell, M. J.
Berkeley, hon. H. O'Connell, M.
Bewes, T. O'Ferrall, R. M.
Bridgeman, H. Pease, J.
Brocklehurst, J. Pechell, Captain
Brotherton, J. Pryme, G.
Callaghan, D. Rae, right hon. Sir W.
Campbell, W. F. Redington, T. N.
Chalmers, P. Rolfe, Sir R. M.
Collier, J. Rundle, J.
Craig, W. G. Salwey, Colonel
Crompton, S. Sharpe, General
Curry, W. Stanley, E. J.
Dennistoun, J. Style, Sir C.
Duke, Sir J. Talbot, C. R.
Dundas, C. W. D. Talbot, J. H.
Dundas, Captain D. Thornley, T.
Dundas, F. Troubridge, Sir E. T.
Dundas, hon. T. Turner, W.
Elliot, hon. J. E. Vigors, N. A.
Fergusson, right hon. R. C. Vivian, rt. hon. Sir R.
Walker, R.
Finch, F. Wallace, R.
Fitzroy, Lord C. Warburton, H.
Gillon, W. D. Weymss, J. E.
Hawes, B. Wilde, Sergeant
Hill, Lord A. M. C. Williams, W. A.
Hobhouse, T. B. Wilshere, W.
Howard, F. J. Wood, G. W.
Howard, P. H. Worsley, Lord
Hume, J. Wyse, T.
James, W. Yates, J. A.
Johnson, General TELLERS.
Langdale, hon. C. Maule, hon. F.
Lushington, C. Steuart, R.

Clause agreed to.

On coming to Clause 4, which enacts that the secretary to the board be appointed by Government,

Captain Gordon

objected to the clause.

On the question that the clause stand part of the bill, the Committee divided:—Ayes 68; Noes 40: Majority 28.

List of the AYES.
Abercromby, hn. G. R. Macleod, R.
Adam, Admiral Marsland, H.
Aglionby, Major Melgund, Viscount
Archbold, R. Murray, rt. hon. J. A.
Baines, E O'Brien, Cornelius
Bannerman, A. O'Connell, M. J.
Beamish, F. B. O'Connell, M.
Bridgeman, H. O'Ferrall, R. M.
Brocklehurst, J. Pease, J.
Brotherton, J. Pechell, Captain
Callaghan, D. Pryme, G.
Campbell, W. F. Redington, T. N.
Chalmers, P. Rolfe, Sir R. M.
Craig, W. G. Rundle, John
Crompton, S. Salwey, Colonel
Curry, W. Sharpe, General
Dennistoun, J. Stanley, E. J.
Duke, Sir J. Stuart, Lord J.
Dundas, C. W. D. Style, Sir C.
Dundas, Captain D. Talbot, C. R. M.
Dundas, F. Talbot, J. H.
Dundas, hon. T. Thornely, T.
Elliot, hon. J. E. Troubridge, Sir E. T.
Fergusson, right hon. R. C. Vigors, N. A.
Wallace, R.
Finch, F. Warburton, H.
Fitzroy, Lord C. Weymss, J. E.
Gillon, W. D. Wilde, Sergeant
Hawes, B. Williams, W. A.
Hill. Lord A. M. C. Wood, G. W.
Hobhouse, T. B. Worsley, Lord
Howard, F. J. Wyse, T.
Howard, P. H. Yates, J. A.
James, W. TELLERS.
Johnson, General Maule, hon. F.
Langdale, hon. C. Steuart, R.
List of the NOES.
Arbuthnot, hon. H. Hope, G. W.
Baillie, Colonel Houstoun, G.
Blair, J. Hurt, F.
Broadley, H. Inglis, Sir R. H.
Chute, W. L. W. James, Sir W. C.
Clerk, Sir G. Johnstone, H.
Colquhoun, J. C. Jones, John
Cresswell, C. Kelly, F.
Darby, G. Lowther, Col.
Duffield, T. Mackenzie, T.
Dunbar, G. Mackenzie, W. F.
Forester, hon. G. Manners, Lord C. S.
Gibson, T. Nicholl, John
Gladstone, W. E. Palmer, G.
Goulburn, rt. hon. H. Perceval, Colonel
Graham, rt. hn. Sir J. Pringle, A.
Grimsditch, T. Rae, rt. hon. Sir W.
Hepburn, Sir T. B. Round, C. G.
Sheppard, T.
Sinclair, Sir G. TELLERS.
Verner, Colonel Gordon, hon. Captain
Wadding, H. S. Lockhart, A. M.

On Clause 13, it was proposed to leave out the words "and particularly for training the prisoners in good and industrious habits, by employing them in useful labour, by affording them religious and moral instruction, and by effecting their complete separation from vicious society."

On this question the Committee again divided:—Ayes 22; Noes 49; Majority 27.

List of the AYES.
Boldero, H. G. Melgund, Viscount
Brotherton, J. Nicholl, J.
Chalmers, P. Pechell, Captain
Dennistoun, J. Salwey, Colonel
Dundas, C. W. D. Vigors, N. A.
Dundas, F. Wallace, R.
Dundas, hon. T. Warburton, H.
Finch, F. Williams, W. A.
Hobhouse, T. B. Wood, G. W.
Howard, F. J.
Inglis, Sir R. H. TELLERS.
James, Sir W. C. Hawes, B.
Macleod, R. Pease, J.
List of the NOES.
Abercromby, hn. G. R. Jones, J.
Adam, Admiral Kelly, F.
Arbuthnot, hon. H. Lockhart, A. M.
Archbold, R. Mackenzie, T.
Baillie, Colonel Mackenzie, W. F.
Bannerman, A. Maule, hon. F.
Beamish, F. B. Murray, rt. hon. J. A.
Blair, J. O'Connell, M. J.
Campbell, W. F. O'Connell, M.
Clerk, Sir G. Palmer, G.
Craig, W. G. Perceval, Colonel
Cresswell, C. Pringle, A.
Curry, W. Pryme, G.
Duke, Sir J. Rae, Sir W.
Dundas, Captain D. Reddington, T. N.
Elliot, hon. J. E. Round, C. G.
Fergusson, rt. hon. C. Sharpe, General
Filmer, Sir E. Sibthorp, Colonel
Gillon, W. D. Sinclair, Sir G.
Gladstone, W. E. Stuart, Lord J.
Gordon, hon. Capt. Talbot, J. H.
Hepburn, Sir T. B. Worsley, Lord
Hill, Lord A. M. C. Wyse, T.
Hope, G. W. TELLERS.
Houstoun, G. Rolfe, Sir R. M.
Howard, P. H. Steuart, R.

Remaining clauses were passed, and the House resumed.