§ Sir Samuel Whalleybelieving that the surplus of public revenue at the disposal of the Chancellor of the Exchequer exceeded two millions sterling, deemed it the duty of each hon. Member of that House to bring forward and press upon the attention of the House (however unpleasant it might be) his peculiar views with reference to the best method of disposing of that surplus. He hoped hon. Gentlemen would give him their attention for a short time, as he meant to take the sense of the House on his motion; and he thought it had a very prejudicial effect upon the House, and was a very great dereliction of a Member's duty to bring down hon. Members to support any particular proposition, and afterwards to close the discussion without giving those Members an opportunity of expressing and recording their opinions. He wished to press this question to a division for another reason also, which was, that he believed the Chancellor of the Exchequer would be mainly guided in disposing of any available surplus revenue by the number of Members who might vote in favour of any particular method of disposing of it; and it was with great satisfaction he observed, that, of 137 who supported him, when last he brought forward this question, in the year 1833, only seventeen had been unseated at the general election; a circumstance which went to bear out his statement of the interest felt on this question by the public generally. Moreover, that supplied a proof, as a reference to the list of names of the 137 would show, that large constituencies were not the fickle bodies they were sometimes described to be; and that, if an honest and consistent man once obtained the confidence of a large constituency, he might retain it all his life. It was only when he deserted his duties and 504 abandoned those principles on which he first received the representation, that he became a melancholy spectacle in his latter days. He trusted he should never be placed in so sorry a condition; he hoped he should retain the confidence of his constituents to the end of his life. Having thus shown the steadiness of large constituencies, he begged to point out to the House a most material feature of this tax, namely, its tendency greatly to diminish the constituencies sending Members to that House. The repeal of this tax, he contended, would, to a very considerable extent, enlarge the constituencies; and he was fully convinced, that such enlargement would operate to the enlargement of the liberal views by which that House would be guided and conducted. There had been several schemes proposed for the disposal of the surplus revenue. The hon. Member for Finsbury and the hon. and learned Member for Bath, were anxious that the last penny of duty should be removed from newspapers; the hon. Member for Liverpool urged the repeal or reduction of the duty on tobacco; another hon. Member of that on soap, and so on; but he hoped to be able to convince the Chancellor of the Exchequer, that the claim he was then putting forward, was the best founded and the most pressing; and he must add, that he hoped the right hon. Gentleman would give him credit, when he stated that he believed the Chancellor of the Exchequer was no less desirous than himself, to relieve the people from the pressure of burthens which fell with peculiar weight upon them. Let it not be forgotten, that the Window-tax was the only remaining tax that was paid, almost exclusively, by the middle classes. There could not be a worse tax in such a country as this. Under the genial heaven of Spain, or in the pure atmosphere of Italy, such an impost might be palliated; but here, where we saw the sun so seldom, and then through a mist, it was too bad to tax the light of heaven; it was too bad to refuse to our poor, if we could not give them food and clothing, the free enjoyment of the common air. The reports of the Poor-law Commissioners declared, that the poorer classes were brought to the lowest state—that meat Was a luxury which they could taste; that tea, and such little comforts, were almost beyond their reach; and he thought that, under these circumstances, they ought at least to have the free and untaxed enjoyment of the air and light of heaven. While the occupiers of 505 large houses had received material relief from the repeal of the house-tax, very little relief had been given to the occupiers of small houses. The hon. Member concluded, by expressing it to be his intention to take the sense of the House on the subject of his resolution, and then moved—"That it is the opinion of this House, that the duty on Windows should be repealed."
§ Mr. Humeseconded the motion, and contended that the tax was not only oppressive on the poorer classes of occupiers, but was extremely prejudicial to the public health, preventing, as it did, the dwellings of the poor from being properly ventilated.
§ The Chancellor of the Exchequersaid, as the hon. Member for Marylebone intended to divide the House on this occasion, it became necessary to go more at length into the subject than he otherwise should have done. In the first place, the hon. Member called upon the House to dispose of 1,200,000l. of the public revenue, without his being aware, or the House being aware, of what was the actual surplus with which they had to deal. He begged to call the attention of the hon. Gentleman to the great fallacy into which he had fallen. The hon. Gentleman had assumed that, upon the general quarter, there was a surplus of 2,000,000l.; but the hon. Gentleman really did not understand the nature of a surplus. A surplus, for the purposes for which the House had to deal with it, meant an actual surplus of income over the expenditure; but the surplus to which the hon. Gentleman had alluded, was merely the surplus of one quarter of the year over the corresponding quarter of the year preceding. It was impossible the hon. Gentleman could know what the surplus of income over the expenditure was, when the financial statement of the year had not yet been laid upon the table. The hon. Member had informed the House, that there was to be an immediate dissolution of Parliament; but upon what information that declaration was founded, he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) was at a loss to conceive. But why was this argument addressed to the House? Were they to adopt any particular measure, not on account of its own merits, but for the sake of obtaining a false and ephemeral popularity? If the measure were a just one, it ought to be supported, whether there was to be a general election or not; but if it were an unjust measure, then the statement made 506 by the hon. Gentleman ought not to influence their votes, but the proposition ought at once to be rejected. If the hon. Gentleman would look to the financial statement up to the 5th of April, 1837, he would not find that there was a surplus of income over the expenditure at the present moment, equal to the amount of the tax he proposed to repeal. What, then, was his proposition? It was not only that the whole of the surplus should be appropriated to the repeal of the Window-tax, but that an actual deficiency in the revenue of the country should be occasioned by the repeal of that tax. But was the Window-tax the most proper one to be selected as a subject on which relief was to be afforded? He thought not. The primary object in repealing any tax, was to afford relief from taxation which would give greater development to the productive industry of the country. He conceived, that the industrious classes at all times, and more particularly at the present time, were those who had the greatest claims on the liberality of Parliament. The hon. Gentleman had introduced political views into this question, and had said, they ought to repeal the Window-tax, because they would thereby increase the elective franchise. But he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) would not argue the question upon that ground. If the franchise ought to be increased, let it not be done by indirect means, but in a bold and avowed manner. Was it, however, certain, that the hon. Gentleman would be affording relief to the persons whom he wished to serve, if the Window-tax were repealed? There were 2,800,000 houses in England, of which only 377,000 contributed at all to the Window-tax, and those were the houses of the wealthier classes; so that the poorer classes who inhabited the 2,400,000 houses paid no Window-tax whatever; and yet the proposition of the hon. Gentleman was to apply the whole existing surplus revenue to the relief of the persons occupying the 377,000 houses, leaving the inhabitants of the 2,400,000 houses without any means of relief by the reduction or repeal of any other tax. The inhabitants of great houses in the large towns, who contributed towards the Window-tax, were not that class of persons who had the first claim on Parliament for relief; but those by whose industry and active enterprise the wealth and commerce of the country were created and sustained. It must also be obvious to every one, that relief ought, in the first 507 instance, to be given where the least relief had hither to been afforded. This argument particularly applied to the present case; for already had the house-tax been repealed to the amount of 1,200,000l. It was true the hon. Gentleman now declared, that great injustice was done by the repeal of the house-tax, but who, at the time, were so loud for the repeal of that tax, as the hon. Gentleman and his Friends? If the Window-tax were to be repealed, there would be the same inequality of relief as was now made the ground of objection to the repeal of the house-tax. He objected to the hon. Gentleman's proposition on principle, and because he thought it bad in itself; and he should, therefore, give it a distinct negative.
§ Captain Pechellstated, that, although he as well as his constituents placed great confidence in his Majesty's Government, he felt bound on that occasion to support the motion of the hon. Member for Mary-la-bonne. If the Chancellor of the Exchequer had intimated any intention of giving partial relief by modifying this tax, he would have abstained from voting; but under the circumstances of the case, he felt bound to support the motion.
§ The House divided:—Ayes 48; Noes 206:—Majority 158.
| List of the AYES. | |
| Aglionby, H. A. | Leader, J. T. |
| Attwood, T. | Lees, J. F. |
| Barnard, E. G. | Lewis, David |
| Blunt, Sir C. | Lushington, Dr. |
| Bowring, Dr. | O'Connell, M. J. |
| Bridgeman, Hewitt | O'Connell, Morgan |
| Brotherton, J. | Parrott, J. |
| Clay, W. | Pattison, James |
| Darlington, Earl of | Poulter, John Sayer |
| Dennistoun, Alex. | Robinson, G. R. |
| D'Eyncourt, C. T. | Ruthven, E. |
| Dick, Q. | Strickland, Sir G. |
| Divett, E. | Thompson, Colonel |
| Duncombe, T. | Tooke, Wm. |
| Elphinstone, H. | Turner, Wm. |
| Ewart, W. | Wakley, T. |
| Fector, J. M. | Ward, Henry George |
| Fielden, J. | Wigney, I. N. |
| Fitzroy, H. | Wilks, John |
| Grattan, Henry | Williams, W. |
| Grote.G. | Williams, Sir J. |
| Hall, B. | Wood, Alderman |
| Hawes, B. | |
| Hindley, C. | TELLERS. |
| Hotham, Lord | Pechell, Captain R. |
| Hume, J. | Whalley, Sir S. |
| List of the NOES | |
| Acheson, Viscount | Ainsworth, P. |
| Adam, Sir C. | Alford, Viscount |
| Arbuthnot, hon. H. | Graham, Sir J. |
| Bagot, hon. W. | Grey, Sir Geo. bt. |
| Baillie, H. D. | Grimston, Viscount |
| Baines, E. | Grimston, hon. E. H. |
| Balfour, T. | Guest, J. J. |
| Barclay, David | Hale, Robert B. |
| Baring, Francis | Halford, H. |
| Baring, T. | Hamilton, Lord C. |
| Barneby, John | Hanmer, Sir J. |
| Beckett, Sir J. | Harcourt, G. S. |
| Bentinck, Lord W. | Hardinge, Sir H. |
| Bethell, Richard | Hardy, J. |
| Bewes, T. | Hay, Sir A. L. bart. |
| Blackstone, W. S. | Hayes, Sir Edm. S. |
| Blake, M. J. | Heathcoat, J. |
| Bramston, T. W. | Hector, C. J. |
| Buller, Sir J. B. Y. | Heneage, E. |
| Burrell, Sir C. M. | Henniker, Lord |
| Burton, Henry | Heron, Sir R. bart. |
| Byng, George | Hillsborough, Earl of |
| Canning, rt. hon. Sir S. | Holland, Edward |
| Cartwright, W. R | Houstoun, G. |
| Cavendish, hon. G. H. | Howard, P. H. |
| Chaplin, Colonel | Hurst, R. H. |
| Chapman, M. L. | Ingham, R. |
| Chisholm, A. | Inglis, Sir R. H. |
| Clerk, Sir G. Bart. | Irton, Samuel |
| Clive, Edward Bolton | Jones, Wilson |
| Colborne, N. W. R. | Jones, Theobald |
| Collier, John | Kerrison, Sir Edward |
| Collins, W. | Knight, Henry Galley |
| Conolly, E.M. | Knightley, Sir C. |
| Corbet, T. | Labouchere, H. |
| Dalmeny, Lord | Law, hon. Chas. E. |
| Denison, J. | Lawson, Andrew |
| Dillwyn, L. W. | Lefroy, A. |
| Donkin, Sir R. | Lefroy, T. |
| Duffield, Thomas | Lemon, Sir C. |
| Dunbar, George | Lennard, T. B. |
| Dundas, hon. T. | Lennox, Lord G. |
| Dundas, J. D. | Lennox, Lord Arthur |
| Dunlop, J. | Lincoln, Earl of |
| Eastnor, Viscount | Lister, E. C. |
| Ebrington, Viscount | Loch, J. |
| Edwards, Colonel | Long, W. |
| Egerton, Sir P. | Longfield, R. |
| Elley, Sir J. | Lowther, Col. H. C. |
| Ellice, E. | Lowther, J. H. |
| Elwes, J. | Mackenzie, T. |
| Estcourt, T. G. | Mackinnon, W. A. |
| Estcourt T. | M'Taggart, J. |
| Feilden, William | Mangles, J. |
| Ferguson, Sir R. A. | Manners, Lord C. |
| Fergusson, R. C. | Marsland, Henry |
| Finch, George | Martin, J. |
| Folkes, Sir W. | Maule, hon. F. |
| Follett, Sir W. | Maunsell, T. P. |
| Forbes, Wm. | Maxwell, H. |
| Forster, C. S. | Methuen, P. |
| Freemantle, Sir T. W. | Miles, W. |
| Gladstone, T. | Mordaunt, Sir J. bt. |
| Gladstone, Wm. E. | Moreton, A. |
| Gordon, R. | Morpeth, Viscount |
| Gordon, hon. W | Mosley, Sir O. |
| Goulburn, H. | Murray, J. A. |
| Goulburn, Sergeant | Musgrave, Sir R. bt. |
| Nagle, Sir R. | Somerset, Lord G. |
| Neeld, Joseph | Stanley, E. J. |
| Nicholl, Dr. | Stanley, Lord |
| North, Frederick | Stanley, W. O. |
| O'Brien, Cornelius | Stuart, Lord J. |
| O'Ferrall, R. M. | Stuart, V. |
| Oliphant, Lawrence | Sturt, Henry Chas. |
| Ossulston, Lord | Talbot, C. R. M. |
| Parker, M. | Thompson, Paul B. |
| Patten, John Wilson | Thorneley, T. |
| Pease, J. | Tracy, Charles H. |
| Peel, rt. hon. Sir R, | Trelawney, Sir W. |
| Peel, W. Y. | Trevor, hon. G. |
| Pendarves, E, W. | Tulk, C. A. |
| Perceval, Colonel | Vere, Sir C. B. |
| Philips, Mark | Verner, Colonel |
| Ponsonby, W. | Vernon, Granville H. |
| Ponsonby, J. | Vesey, hon. Thomas |
| Powell, Colonel | Wall, C. B. |
| Power, James | Walpole, Lord |
| Price, Sir Robert | Welby, G. E. |
| Pryme, George | White, Samuel |
| Pryse, Pryse | Whitmore, Thomas C. |
| Rice, rt. hon. T. S. | Wilbraham, G. |
| Richards, R. | Wilbraham, B. |
| Ross, Charles | Williams, Robert |
| Russell, Lord John | Wodehouse, E. |
| Russell, Lord Charles | Worsley, Lord |
| Ryle, John | Wortley, J. S. |
| Scott, J. W. | Wrottesley, Sir J. |
| Scourfield, W. H. | Wynn, rt. hon. C. W. |
| Seymour, Lord | Young, G. F. |
| Shaw, F. | Young, J. |
| Shirley, E. J. | TELLERS. |
| Sinclair, Sir G. | Baring, F. T. |
| Smith, R. V. | Parker, John |