MILLBANK PENITENTIARY. (Hansard, 28 February 1837)

§ Mr. Hawes
expected, that the hon. Gentleman would have afforded the House some information as to whether this measure proposed any alteration in (he present system of prison discipline. There was another point of importance, on which information was desirable, namely, with respect to the cost of maintaining prisoners. In respect to this expenditure, sometimes it was high and sometimes low, and he hoped that some attempt would be made to effect an uniformity of system. There was another very important subject, namely, the proper treatment of juvenile offenders. There were no less than 3,000 children passed through the gaols of the metropolis in a very short period of time, and he had no doubt they came out worse than they went in. He felt bound to say, without meaning to cast an imputation on any particular individual, that the office of Secretary of State for the Home Department was an office that did very little good. There was far less attention paid by that department to the criminal jurisprudence of the country than ought to be expected from an office so constituted and so well paid. Now, he would refer to the prison of Newgate, which was disgraceful. There had been v some improvement in the shape of building additional cells, but with that exception the recommendation of the Commissioners seemed to be as far as ever from being carried into effect. He had introduced the subject unexpectedly. Perhaps the hon. Gentleman was not prepared to give any information on those points, and if that was the case he would have no objection to wait for the second reading of the Bill, when he would be prepared to enter into the entire subject.

§ The Chancellor of the Exchequer
, in the absence of his noble Friend, the Secretary for the Home Department, wished to say a few words in reference to what had fallen from the hon. Gentleman. He quite 1174 agreed as to the importance of those subjects to which the hon. Member had referred, but the hon. Gentleman was quite mistaken if he supposed, that a remedy for those evils could be found and applied be easily as the hon. Gentleman had imagined. Now, with respect to the subject of prison discipline, the first step they should take was to be certain of the facts: and, as regarded secondary punishments, they should endeavour to ascertain how far public opinion would go along with them in any system they might adopt, and whether from want of support in that respect there middy they would employ would not be exposed to failure. There were many other difficulties that beset that part of the question. He could state, on the part of his noble Friend, the Secretary for the Home Department, that the subject of adopting some better system with respect to juvenile offenders, had not escaped the attention of the Government, and that his noble Friend was prepared with a plan on that subject, which he hoped to be able to carry into effect. As to the state of Newgate, it was generally admitted, that the condition of that prison called loudly for a remedy, and one of the objects of this Bill, was to prepare for carrying into effect the recommendation of the Commissioners, both with regard to the improvement of that prison and adopting some better system towards juvenile offenders. With respect to the duties of the Home Office, when the hon. Member spoke lightly of those duties he was much mistaken. He might say, that he had served an apprenticeship in that Department and he could state, that there was always much to be done in it of great importance, and much, too, which never came under the notice of the House. Independent of its other duties the Home Department was an office of reference for the magistrates and judges, and perhaps the best proof of the efficient manner in which those matters were attended to was, that they so seldom came under the notice of Parliament. With respect to inattention to the criminal jurisprudence of the country, he could say, that there was now on the notice-book a notice for the introduction of the largest measure of criminal law reform that ever came before the consideration of the House. He would not anticipate the discussion of this measure, but when it was brought forward he was sure that the House would give it 1175 its best consideration. That measure would lay the ground for the adoption of secondary punishments, for an improvement in prison discipline, and a total alteration of the system with respect to juvenile offenders.

Alderman Wood
said, that the hon. Member for Lambeth seemed to have a particular taste for finding fault with the prison of Newgate. He did not know whether the hon. Member had been there since he became a Member of that House. At present every effort was making to enlarge that prison, and afford an increase of accommodation, and nothing had been left undone by the Court of Aldermen to bring that prison within the plan of the Secretary of State, so far as the separation and accommodation of untried prisoners. For this purpose several new cells had been made. The expenditure in this respect had been greatly increased since Middlesex, Kent, Surrey, and Essex had been added by the new Criminal Court Act. As to juvenile offenders, the increase of boys in the prison of Newgate was very great. Most of the children were sent in by their parents. They were generally committed for stealing some trifling matter from their father or grandfather, or some one else, and sent to Newgate. He thought it would be a great improvement to have a summary jurisdiction and to punish children in a summary way, and not let them remain in prison. This jurisdiction might be exercised by the Government or some other proper authority. He had heard much of the benefit of educating children; but many children who were in prison knew how to read and write, and many of them for new offences were sent to gaol a second time. They might continue to keep up this Penitentiary. Sometimes it was filled and some times empty. "When it was filled disease broke out there. Yet there was no complaint of the Penitentiary—all the blame was reserved for Newgate, and he believed for no other reason than because that prison was under the government of a set of magistrates who were not popular in that House. He must condemn as one of the sources of the evil, the system of allowing convicts to remain in the prison of New-gate for a long time under sentence of death until their convictions were reported to the King in Council. There were prisoners at present who had been capitally convicted three sessions ago, and who 1176 would not be reported to the King in Council until to-morrow. He thought this was an absurd procedure, and that a record of their conviction should be sufficient, as was the case in the several counties of England. He believed that at one time the hon. Member for Lambeth had a desire to be called to the Court of Aldermen. He was a member of various courts in the City and from the activity which the hon. Member had displayed since he came into Parliament he had no doubt that if he was a member of the Court of Aldermen he would be of valuable assistance in reforming the prison of Newgate. He did not see why the prison of Dart moor was not made use of for the purpose of lessening the number of inmates in Newgate. That prison was situated in a most healthy spot, and he did not know why it had been abandoned. He did not think that they ought to allow a convict to remain in Newgate a single day after his sentence had passed. They had done all in their power for the improvement of Newgate, unless it was supposed that, for the accommodation of Surrey, Middlesex, or Kent, they were to expend the entire funds of the Corporation.

§ Mr. Fox Maule
rose to repudiate the charges that had been urged against the department to which he belonged. With respect to secondary punishments and juvenile offenders, the first clause of the Bill he proposed to introduce, enacted that the Secretary of State for the Home Department should have the power to order the removal of convicts from New gate to the Penitentiary, with the view of adopting secondary punishments. The Secretary for the Home Department had given the utmost attention to the reduction of the expense of this establishment, and in the estimates for the present year there would be found a reduction of 2,000l. in that respect.