SURVEY OF CHURCH-LANDS. (Hansard, 14 April 1837)

§ Sir Robert H. Inglis
, adverting to the Motion (made last night) for copies of certain portions of Parliamentary Surveys in the library at the Palace, in Lambeth, observed, that he was authorized by his Grace the Archbishop to express his willingness to give any extracts from, or copies of, those documents the House might require; but he would put it to the House to consider that the very copying of those documents would cost 400l. This was independently of the expense of printing, which the House would have afterwards to consider. He would also suggest that if copies were made and printed, some compensation ought to be made to the Archbishop's secretary for the loss of those fees he now received on extracts being made. He would add that if the House regarded these documents as public property, and it Were desirable to give greater publicity to them, they ought to be placed in the British Museum, Where the public could have constant access to them.

§ Mr. Thomas Duncombe
said, that the House ought to obtain copies of those documents in the first instance, and then they might consider what might be the expense of having them printed. He thought the hon. Baronet, the Member for the University of Oxford was quite mistaken as to the expense of copying. He could get it done for 50l. The hon. Member for Leeds had said, that he had got sixty-six extracts made from them without any expense. That, no doubt, arose from the fact of his being a Member of Parliament, and from the circumstance of the Subject having occupied the attention of the House a short time before. But if any private individual had gone to make such a number of extracts, it would have cost him 33l. If these documents were public property, what right had the Archbishop's secretary to demand a fee for any extract from them? He would contend that whatever the House might 1294 please to do with them when it got them, it ought to be in possession of a copy. Let the Archbishop keep the originals, and make money of them for his Secretary if he could, if any one should be disposed to go to Lambeth for extracts or for copies, after the House could give them After all, he thought it was hardly fair that the Archbishop of Canterbury, With his high Station and dignity, and his revenue of 20,000l. should desire to obtain fees for his secretary, by giving extracts from documents which were the property of the public.

§ Mr. Borthwick
would support the Motion of the hon. Member for Finsbury for the production of copies Of these documents; and he should do so with much greater pleasure if he had not heard the concluding remarks of that hon. Member. The imputation, that the Archbishop wished to make money of those documents for his secretary, could not have been seriously meant by the hon. Member. It certainly was wholly unmerited by any act of the most rev. Primate. He Would, support the Motion, on the ground that these documents were the property of the public.

§ Dr. Nicholl
said, that on the preceding night it had been intimated, that the Archbishop of Canterbury was perfectly willing to facilitate access to those papers, and to give them up if such were the wish of the House, for he Considered himself as only the depositary of these papers, regarding them as Parliamentary documents. The secretary looked for no fees, and would not interfere with any arrangement which it might be thought necessary or expedient to make.

§ Sir Robert Peel
said, that the general understanding with respect to those papers was, that they were documents' of a public character, that therefore, there could exist no objection to their production, and he should vole for their being produced; but he confessed that he could not help participating in the surprise which had been expressed by the hon. Member near him at the allusion made by his hon. Friend to the conduct in this matter of the Archbishop of Canterbury. It did very much surprise him that the name of that most rev. Prelate should have been mentioned on the present occasion in any other terms than those of acknowledgment and respect; for he had not only afforded every facility of access 1295 to those documents, but expressed his readiness to deliver them up. It was already known to the House that the hon. Member for Leeds had had occasion to make many voluminous extracts from those papers, and had carried his researches to a considerable extent, yet nothing could be more liberal than was the conduct of the Archbishop to that hon. Member. He was therefore, quite at a loss to imagine what could now have arisen to irritate the naturally complacent temper of his hon. Friend and induced him to complain, when it was expected that he would have pronounced a panegyric upon the conduct of the Archbishop of Canterbury.

§ Mr. Hawes
said, he had the honour to represent the Archbishop in that House—the most rev. Prelate was a constituent of his. He had lived in his neighbourhood many years—he had had some intercourse with him, and he must be allowed to say, that he did not believe a more disinterested or distinguished Gentleman ever filled the situation of Archbishop. With regard to his conduct in this matter, there could be no doubt that it was in every respect what it ought to have been.

§ Mr. Thomas Duncombe
observed, that the hon. Baronet, the Member for Oxford, appeared to think that the House ought to give compensation to the Archbishop's secretary—it should be recollected that the papers in question were public documents, and that the Archbishop of Canterbury ought himself to pay his own secretary.

§ Lord John Russell
had no objection to the present Motion, though he entertained some doubt as to the value of the documents. When they were deposited with the Archbishop of Canterbury, it was intimated that he might, if he thought proper, transmit to the several dioceses of England and Wales, such of these documents as related to their dioceses respectively; it might, therefore, not be in the power of the most rev. Prelate to deliver up the whole of them or allow them to be copied, for the obvious reason that they were not all in his possession.