POOR-LAWS (IRELAND). (Hansard, 3 March 1836)

Mr. O'Brien

said, that during the last Session of Parliament, he had given notice, that in the present year he would bring forward measures for the relief of the Poor in Ireland. The Bill which he was now about to submit, was one of those measures; and, although the Government had announced their intention of developing a plan of their own, he hoped that he should still be permitted to lay this Bill before the House. In the observations with which he felt himself bound to accompany his Motion, it was happily no longer necessary for him to adduce any arguments in favour of the general principle, that there ought to be in Ireland, as in every other well-regulated country, a provision for the relief of the poor. The House, the country, and the Government, had, at length, awakened to the disgraceful condition of neglect and wretchedness in which the poor of Ireland had so long been allowed to languish— a condition which, he might venture to say, had no parallel in any country in Europe. The difficulties with which we had now to contend, were of a different complexion to that of resistance to the principle of a poor-law. The problem now to be solved was, in what manner the great interests of humanity could be best served by practical legislation upon the subject. On the one hand, it was to be feared, lest measures of too mild and moderate a character might be wanting in efficiency, whilst upon the other, there was a danger lest enactments of too coercive a kind, might impose upon the holders of property in Ireland, a burden which they were unable to bear. He was not disposed rashly to disregard the interests of those who are in possession of property in Ireland; but upon the other hand, he felt persuaded, that it was 1194 for the interest of this class to make even a very considerable sacrifice, in order to rescue the population of Ireland from a situation which almost necessarily placed them in opposition to the rights of property, and prepared them for insubordination and crime. The Bill which he should introduce that night was framed upon the principle, that in constructing a system of poor laws in Ireland, there ought to be local administration, combined with central control—local administration, by bodies elected by, and representing the contributors to the poor fund, and general central supervision and control, on the part of a body named by the Government, and responsible to Parliament. The Bill then proposed to erect in Dublin a Central Board of Commissioners of the Poor, similar to that which had been established in England with so much advantage. It would be the duty of this Board to direct and regulate the whole machinery of the poor administration throughout Ireland. Its first task would be to divide each county in Ireland into a certain number of districts, by the union or the division of parishes. It was obvious that the present parochial divisions were unsuited for the purpose of creating any organization, with a view to the relief of the poor, as the parishes in that country varied within such wide limits in point of population and extent. The size of the district which he should be disposed to recommend, would be such, that it should embrace a population of not more than 5,000 persons, and not less than 2,000. The next object of the Board would be, to procure a valuation, for the purpose of assessment. Nothing could be more equivocal or unjust than the mode in which the Grand Jury Cess was at present levied; and as it was not expected that the Ordnance survey and valuation would be completed for several years, it would be necessary, in the mean time, to have some temporary equitable valuation upon which the assessment for the relief of the poor might be based. The formation of such a valuation would be attended with but little difficulty or expense, because in every parish in Ireland there had been recently made valuations under the Tithe Composition Act, and it would only be necessary to correct these valuations, where they were erroneous, and to add to them whatever property had been exempted 1195 from tithe. The Bill enacted then, that the Commissioners should appoint in each county a sufficient number of valuators to effect, within a limited time— say three months— a valuation of the whole kingdom. Every person in each district, whose holding was valued at a specified amount, say 3l. or 5l., would be considered as liable to the poor rate. Upon a fixed day in each year, the rate-payers in each district were to assemble and elect for the district a warden and council—the council to consist of not less than ten members, and not more than twenty members, and the warden to be its permanent chairman and responsible organ. This local organization was similar to that which exists in France, and he believed would be found of the greatest advantage in reference to many other objects besides the relief of the poor. He proposed himself to take advantage of it in the Bills which he intended to introduce for remodelling the Grand Jury system, and for the regulation of the medical charities of Ireland, and he thought it might also be made use of in establishing a general system of education in Ireland, and even in assisting in the preservation of the public peace. The council would have the power of imposing upon the district a rate for the relief of the poor, which he proposed should be limited to one shilling in the pound upon the property included in the valuation —two-thirds of which rate should be paid by the landlord, and one-third by the occupying tenant. He felt the force of objections which might be urged against a limitation of the rate; but when we were enforcing a new tax, it was only fair to guarantee to those who would be affected by it, that it should not exceed a reasonable amount. It should also be remarked, that if the full maximum of one shilling in the pound were raised, it would produce an aggregate of 700,000l. per annum, which he believed to be more than sufficient, under proper arrangements, to accomplish all the purposes contemplated by this Act. The council would be empowered to select at their own discretion such persons in each district as they considered proper objects of relief, but only such persons as belonged to the class of what are called "the impotent poor"— that is, the aged, helpless, infirm, disabled orphan, widow, &c. This class would be strictly defined under the Bill, and no relief in the way of weekly allowance to any person not 1196 belonging to this class would be legal. For the purpose of preventing partiality in the distribution of the fund, and of calling into action public opinion, it would be required that in each district a list should be affixed in some public place, containing the names of the persons relieved, the amount of the weekly allowance, and the cause of relief. All accounts of expenditure should be sent up to the Board every year to be audited by them, and an abstract of the total expenditure upon the poor of Ireland should be annually submitted to Parliament. The Board would also be armed with the necessary powers for correcting any local abuses which might arise, and for keeping the whole machinery in beneficial action. These were the provisions of the Bill as far as regarded the relief of the helpless poor. He thought it of great importance to keep the two classes of the helpless and able-bodied poor distinct, in reference to arrangements for their relief, because for the former a domiciliary allowance appeared the most appropriate mode of relief, whilst for the able-bodied this was a most objectionable mode of assistance. With regard to the able-bodied poor in Ireland, he confessed that, looking to the present state of that country, he did not think it would be safe to adopt to the fullest extent the principle of the English Poor Law—namely, that every man in the community should have a legal title either to relief or employment. Without, however, recognising this legal right, he thought that every measure of a subsidiary kind which could tend to ameliorate the condition of the labourer, who found it difficult to procure employment, ought to be brought into action. However unpopular the avowal might be, he was bound to say, that he thought, in the present circumstances of Ireland, emigration afforded the best resource for the unemployed labourer—that which was the most advantageous both for the emigrant himself, and for the labourers who remained. It was obvious that if any considerable number of the able-bodied poor should emigrate, the wages of labour in Ireland would be proportionably raised; and as for the emigrant himself, he was able at a cost of about five pounds to proceed to the remotest part of Upper Canada, where he could obtain immediately wages at three or four shillings a day, with the certainty, if he were industrious, of leaving a comfortable inheritance to, his family 1197 instead of starving at home upon wages which ill many cases did not average sixpence per clay throughout the year. It was only a few days ago a paper had issued from the Colonial Office, in which it was stated, that in Upper Canada, notwithstanding the great emigration which had flowed thither during the last few years, and which in one year exceeded 50,000 persons, there is at this moment an active demand for not less than 20,000 labourers. He could not consider any one who encouraged a foolish prejudice against emigration as a real friend to the poor. Persons in the wealthiest classes considered that the best provision which they could make for their young children was to obtain for them a situation in the East or West Indies, where they were exposed to an unhealthy climate, with but a very uncertain chance of returning home, after having spent the best portion of their life in voluntary exile. How much more advantageous to the poor man was the change to a country in which his labour was amply remunerated, in which the climate was similar to that of his own country— where he would probably find many of the associates of his youth, and where he would have the means of returning home at any time at a trifling expense. The Bill then proposed to permit the council in each district to grant aid to poor persons desirous to emigrate, provided the Grand Jury of the county should grant an equal amount. The money so allowed in aid of emigration would be lodged with the treasurer of the county, and could only be drawn out of his hands by a person trained by the Colonial Office. He thought this precaution necessary, to prevent those frightful disasters which had taken place by shipwreck, in unsound emigrant vessels. The Colonial Office had already most beneficially undertaken the superintendence of female emigration to New South Wales; and he thought that all emigration of the poor ought, in a similar manner, to be placed under its guardianship. Another source of relief which he considered available for the benefit of the able-bodied destitute poor of Ireland, was the money which is at present expended under our Grand Jury system, upon roads and public works. The sum so expended amounted annually to about 400,000l., which, at the usual rate of wages in Ireland, would give employment for four or five months, every year, to about 100,000 1198 destitute labourers, being about one-sixth of the whole male population, who are not themselves in possessession of land, as occupying cultivators of the soil. He entirely agreed with the hon. Member for the county of Waterford (Sir Richard Musgrave) and the hon. Member for the town of Waterford (Mr. Wyse) that the present Grand-Jury system should be altogether remodelled— that a representative system should be substituted for the present system of nomination. But as he differed considerably with his hon. Friend as to the best means of constructing a new system, it was his intention to submit a Bill to the House, with a view of developing his ideas on the subject; and one of the objects of that Bill would be to render the expenditure of the county works available to the relief of the able-bodied destitute poor, by giving to the district council the power of sending to the baronial works unemployed labourers, who might apply for relief, on the condition, however, that the district should for each labourer so sent, contribute a trifling sum in aid of the baronial funds, as long as he was employed. Another measure available for the unemployed labourer was the colonization of waste lands, by the establishment of institutions somewhat similar to the poor colonies of Holland. He conceived that in the present circumstances of Ireland, such a measure would in every way be most desirable. The capital expended in such reclamation would be employed most usefully and productively for the community; whereas that which was expended upon workhouses was unproductively employed. He was inclined, therefore, to bring in a Bill to permit counties or baronies in Ireland, under proper arrangements, to take waste lands for the purpose of effecting their reclamation by the unemployed poor. With regard to workhouses, he was unwilling to recommend their establishment, although it was possible that, eventually, we should be compelled to establish in each county a few of them, not so much for the purpose of affording relief to the really indigent, as in order to take away all excuse for application for relief from the idle labourers, who might plead inability to find employment elsewhere. As the erection of workhouses, however, was necessarily attended with considerable expense, and as they ought only to be regarded as, to a certain extent, penal establishments, he was unwilling at 1199 present to make any provision for their erection until all other expedients had been tried without success. As to a collateral measure to those which he had already mentioned, he thought that the medical charities of Ireland should be placed under proper regulation. We had at present many dispensaries, and some hospitals; but, whilst in some districts there were more dispensaries than were needed, in other districts there were none at all, and in many instances there were considerable abuses in the management of dispensaries, which required correction. The present hospitals of Ireland, though supported by the counties at large, were, in fact, only district hospitals, as it was quite idle to suppose that an hospital, situated at a distance of twenty or thirty miles, could be available to any poor person who had met with a sudden accident, or was attacked with any sudden disease. He proposed, therefore, to bring in a Bill, the object of which would be to secure to every district in Ireland containing a certain population, say 10,000 to 20,000 inhabitants, a well-managed dispensary, and to place a well-regulated hospital at a distance of not more than fifteen miles from every poor family in the county—Such was an outline of the measure for the relief of the poor, which appeared to him adapted to the present circumstances of Ireland. It would give him real pleasure to find his projects superseded by plans of a more perfect character; and he had every confidence that the Government would, with sincerity, earnestness, and effect, apply themselves to the ultimate accomplishment of this great legislative effort. It was some encouragement to know that, however imperfect future plans might be, they could be productive of no greater evils than those which we now so painfully witnessed. Sure, also, he was, that it was the duty of Parliament to admit of no delay, to shrink from no sacrifice, to be daunted by no difficulty, in carrying into effect their determination, as far as in them lay, to redeem the country which was placed under their care, from a condition which was alike a reproach to their Government, and a disgrace to humanity. The hon. Member concluded by moving for leave to bring in the Bill,