STAMP DUTIES—NEWSPAPERS. (Hansard, 10 August 1836)

The Chancellor of the Excequer
said that if the hour was earlier than it was, he had great hopes then, that even at the present advanced hour the House would bear with him for a moment, whilst he stated the course which he proposed they should adopt in reference to this Bill, as it was brought up to them amended by the House of Lords. In the first instance, before he proceeded further, he should move that the amendments be read by the Clerk at the table.

§ The Chancellor of the Exchequer
said, that the House having now official cognizance of what he supposed most of its Members were previously, through other channels of information, awar of—having now a knowledge of the amendments made by the House of Lords in this Bill, he would at once state that he thought it perfectly immaterial to enter upon the consideration of those amendments, inasmuch as they were amendments made by the House of Lords in a Bill of aid and supply, which he need not inform the House was a direct violation of their privileges. No one individual in that House had exerted himself more strongly to maintain, in all due respect, the privileges and rights of the House of Lords, as a coordinate branch of the Legislature, than himself, but upon the very same grounds that he had done so, he now felt it to be 1088 his duty to maintain what was due to their own privileges in the House of Commons. There was no principle more decidedly laid down, and less open to controversy, and least from any one in that House, that to the House of Commons, and to the House of Commons alone, it belonged to deal in all matters of aid and supply. He admitted that the application of this principle was open to some just and reasonable limitation, and that if the House of Commons were to endeavour to engraft upon a Bill of aid and supply matters quite foreign to the professed objects of such a measure, such an attempt would not be fairly within the operation of their privilege, and could not be protected by it. But in the present case he denied that such an attempt had been made by the House of Commons to stretch their privileges. The clauses which the House of Lords had rejected in this Bill were not such as were technically called "tacks," foreign to the subject matter of the Bill. True, the clauses so left out were not of his introduction. True, they were not in the original Bill brought in by him, but had been introduced into the measure, on the motion of other Gentlemen, in the course of the discussions which the measure underwent in that House. The one House, however, had not been taken by surprise in the introduction of these clauses; one of them had been introduced on the motion of an hon. Gentleman, not now in his place, and not one objection had been urged against it, at least by any one on that side of the House. The clause had been objected to, however, in another place, and had been struck out of the Bill, and now the only question was, how the House of Commons had to deal in respect to the Bill so altered? He apprehended that there was but one mode open to the House whereby to assert its rights and its privileges as an independent branch of the Legislature, and that was, not to agree in the amendments made by the House of Lords in this Bill. He thought that upon that point there could not be entertained the least shadow of a doubt. If he wanted authority in support of this, which he believed, however, no Gentleman on this side of the House could require, and which he thought Gentlemen on the other side would be reluctant to ask for—but if, as he said before, he did stand in need of an authority upon this subject, he should at once refer to a passage in the 1089 speech lately made by the right hon. Member for Tamworth, in which he declared that, "if the question was a question of privilege, and merely of privilege, no one would be more forward and ready than himself in defending to the utmost the privileges of that House." But he would not detain the House longer by discussing that which every one in the House must at once admit. He would assume, therefore, that the House was prepared to defend its privileges, and the question now was as to the best mode of dealing in such a case as the present. Having consulted all the authorities upon the subject in order to guide him in the course he should this night take up, the motion that he had now to make was, the amendments of the House of Lords having been duly read, that the Bill now in the Speaker's hands be laid aside. He would tell the House why he framed his motion in that form. If he were to move, that the amendments of the House of Lords be rejected in the way commonly proposed, he would, in fact, be proposing a motion against the very Bill originally introduced by himself into this House, for in such form the Bill was actually left by the omissions made in it by the Lords of the amendments introduced into it in the course of its discussion in this House. If he had done so, therefore, and the motion were agreed to, the House must be aware that they would be precluded from the re-consideration of the question in the course of the present Session, which was what he was most anxious to avoid. Considering the preparations which had been making on all hands by those connected with newspaper publications,—considering the vast changes and arrangements which they had commenced in anticipation of the passing of this measure—considering the expectations which had ripened in the public mind upon the subject, it must be evident that it would be a very great calamity to the country if, by any chance, this Bill, or some measure having the same object, was not to pass into law before the close of the present Session of Parliament; and if the state of things which now existed, through the present defective state of the law, was permitted to continue till the next Session. He had already stated to the House, on a former occasion, the open and und sguised violation of the law which had been for a long time past, and still was gaining head. He had told the House of the numberless 1090 punishments and imprisonments which were the consequence of these illegal proceedings, and by which it was vainly endeavoured to suppress or check them, and he would only ask the House, in the knowledge of these facts, would they permit such a state of things to go on for another year? On the contrary, if there were any good likely to result from the passing of a measure like the present, ought not the House to rush forward at once, and procure that benefit for the public without further unnecessary delay? He would remind the House that there was not one of the numerous body of intelligent men, whose capitals were invested in newspaper publications, and whose lives had been devoted to that branch of industry, who did not look forward with anxiety to the passing of this remedial measure, and he would urge the House not to interpose any delay which could possibly be avoided in granting them a boon of protection which they so earnestly desired. He might be told that it was late in the Session for the introduction of a new Bill, but he would answer this by assuring the House that the Bill which he was about to ask for leave to bring in was no new measure, and involved no single detail in which the House had not already acquiesced. If this measure had been met with strong opposition from any parties in the House, then, indeed, the case might be different, and there might be some reasonable ground to object to the introduction, at this period of the Session, of a measure which had been already so strongly contested. Such, however, was not the case, and he now merely called upon those who had assisted him in passing the present Bill, to lend him their assistance again in passing the similar measure which, with the permission of the House, he was this evening about to bring in. He was aware that there were many points connected with this subject about which differences of opinion existed in the minds of many hon. Members in that House; but what he said was, let them not at this period hazard the progress of this great question, by uncompromisingly maintaining their respective minor points of difference—let them not lend the sanction of the House of Commons to a litigious system like this, which he regretted to see already too much prevailed. Before he sat down he could not omit referring to certain insinuations which had been thrown out on this subject, and that in a 1091 quarter where he had certainly least of all expected to hear them. He certainly was hardly prepared to hear parties who had hitherto opposed any reduction at all in stamp-duties upon newspapers, now holding out a sort of promise, or professing an inclination for the total abolition of those duties. This was a bait which he was somewhat surprised to see held out; and if those who held it forth were men who knew anything of the sports of the field, and knew what was meant by a false drag—if they were aware of the use of a red herring in this way, in order to get the hounds off the real scent, and if they knew also by whom such expedients were usually resorted to, they would spare him (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) from further characterising the conduct of those who had recourse to such arts. What; he had described was no other than the conduct of the poacher, and all he would say was, let not the parties he had referred to take up the course of the poacher on the present occasion, and impede him in the course of public utility which he was now called upon by his duty to take up, by holding out hopes and throwing out suggestions which they all the while knew would never be realised. The Bill which he should presently ask leave of the House to introduce was the same Bill in every particular as that which he had formerly brought in, with the sole exception of a slight alteration in the date when the proposed Act should come into operation, which was rendered unavoidable by the delay which had occurred in passing the measure. In the meantime, he had to move that the Bill now on the table be laid aside.

Mr. Goulburn
observed, that he thought the right hon. Gentleman had taken unnecessary trouble in dwelling so largely as he had done, in making the preceding motion on the necessity of defending the privileges of the House. So perfectly did he agree with the right hon. Gentleman on that subject, that he had thought it best to abstain altogether from speaking in reference to the motion which had just been made and agreed to by the House, because he thought that, in the case of such a motion, 1092 there should not even be the appearance of question or objection on the part of any Member of the House. With respect to the subject of the Bill which the Chancellor of the Exchequer now asked leave to bring in, whatever his own individual opinions might be on the subject, he should abstain from pressing them on the present occasion, and should not throw any opposition in the way of the proposed measure.

§ Mr. Hume
did not think the Bill had suffered much from the omission of the clauses which the Lords had struck out; it might possibly be the better for wanting them. On the whole he was not at all sorry at what had taken place, and he only hoped that no delay would occur in passing the new Bill. For his own part, though he certainly thought the duty ought to be taken off entirely, he should not, on that account, oppose the present measure for its partial reduction.

§ Mr. Potter
inquired what period the right hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer proposed fixing for the new Bills coming into operation?

§ The Chancellor of the Exchequer
replied, on the 1st of October, which was a fortnight later than the period originally intended; but the delay, he would observe, was none of his causing.

§ The Chancellor of the Exchequer
said, that under the peculiar circumstances of the present case, and being anxious to prevent further delay or obstruction in the passing of this Bill, the House would perhaps allow him to move, that the Bill be read a second time to-night.

Mr. Goulburn
, though he quite entered into the views of the right hon. Gentleman, and was anxious not to throw unnecessary impediments in his way, was apprehensive that there might be some inconvenience in agreeing to his proposition. The House should be careful, after the course which it had just adopted in reference to the Bill sent up to it from the Lords, that in any new Bill which it might adopt and send up to the other House, on this subject, there should be no ground for objection on account of any alterations upon the clauses of the Bill already agreed to by the Lords, so as to avoid the possibility of any new amendments by the latter, 1093 which would again be fatal to the measure. He said this in reference to the intention which the Chancellor of the Exchequer had announced of altering the date at which the proposed Act should take effect; and although that alteration appeared certainly to be one of a very trifling nature, still it was as well to consider it well before it was adopted. He apprehended, moreover, that there was no such immediate cause for haste in the proceedings upon this Bill, and that there would be still time for it to go through the regular stages in the course of the present Session.

§ The Chancellor of the Exchequer
observed, that if the Bill was now read a second time, there would be ample opportunity for considering the trifling variation in the present Bill from the former one, namely, the period of its commencing operation—when it got into Committee.

§ Mr. Wakley
could see no reason for, such precipitation with this Bill. It seemed as if the House was glad to have alterations made in their Bills for the very pleasure of putting them aside and bringing in new ones in their stead. For his own part, he was decidedly in favour of the clauses which had been expunged by the Lords. He thought no man should be allowed to print, or assist in printing, what he was not prepared to avow in his own name to society.

§ Sir T. Fremantle
objected to taking two stages upon an important Bill like the present, especially as no notice had been given of the alteration from the original scheme proposed by it.

§ The Chancellor of the Exchequer
said, it was highly important that the other House should have an opportunity of making some progress in the Bill, and of showing some intention in reference to it before the close of the week. He would, however, consent to postpone the second reading of the Bill till the next day, under the understanding that it might then be permitted to go through its remaining stages at one sitting.