SUPPLY—ORDNANCE. (Hansard, 11 April 1836)

§ Sir Andrew Leith Hay

said, that in bringing under the consideration of the House the Ordnance estimates for the 862 year, it would not be necessary for him to detain them by any very lengthened preliminary details. The estimates had been framed in conformity with those of former years. They had been carefully examined, and he believed all the circumstances connected in the first place with efficiency, and secondly with economy, had been considered and acted upon in this year's estimates. The estimate for the present year was 52,610l. less than that of last year. This diminution had arisen from various causes, which would be ascertained by a reference to the items. But the credits for last year, which amounted to 200,000l., were decreased in the estimate now proposed, by 20,000l., consequently the sum to be voted, instead of being 52,610l. less than that of last year, would only be 32,610l. less. In adverting to the different items which it would be his duty to bring before the House, he should refer, in the first place, to the vote called for for the store department. The amount last year was not so great as that for which it was intended to call on the House on the present occasion, by 10,000l. but that was the aggregate, and included the sum of 20,000l. for small arms, whereas the sum required last year for that purpose was only 5,000l. It bad been considered necessary to increase the sum providing for small arms, in consequence of the absolute necessity of filling up the stores with a superior class of arms, and keeping those necessary and proper for the exigencies of the public service, and issuing to the troops arms of a better and more serviceable description. The estimate of the present year for stores was 75,000l., while that for last year had been 65,000l.; but the sum to be voted was in fact 5,000l. less than in the preceding year for the general supply of stores. The Commissariat Supplies of last year as compared with this amounted to a much greater sum, in consequence of the variation in the price of forage for the Cavalry. The price of forage last year had been considerably higher than it was at present, and a diminution of the expenditure to the amount of 19,666l. would take place in this particular item. In the present estimate there was an increase under the head of the unprovided, in consequence of completing an alteration suggested for purposes of economy, and now carried into effect—the removal of the great stores in Tooley-street to the Tower. That removal had now been accomplished, 863 but it had occasioned in the unprovided branch of the estimates a very considerable excess in consequence of sums formerly voted not having met the exigences of the service for which they were granted. The removing [of the stores in Tooley-street, and preparing a store-house in the Tower for their reception, and for purposes necessary to the service, had cost the public the sum of 8,705l. Government had held the lease of the store in Tooley-street for an unexpired term of years. That lease had been sold, and the proceeds had been 10,150l., fully covering all the expenses occasioned by the transfer, and a sum of 3,300l. annual rent would be saved to the public. There was another item which formed a very considerable feature in the estimate of the year, namely, the expense of the surveys of Great Britain and Ireland. The sum taken for the survey of Great Britain last year was 10,500l.; that proposed now to be applied to that object was 13,000l., making an excess of 2,500l. This was called for by an application which had been made to hasten the progress of the survey, and, if possible, to terminate it in a shorter time than had been previously intended. The sum to be set apart for the survey of Ireland was exactly similar to that of last year, amounting to 40,000l. He felt satisfied that if there were any scientific work that had done honour to this country, that would be serviceable for all the purposes of local legislation, and for those objects connected with the interests and improvement of the country, it was the survey of Great Britain and Ireland. The officer who had the charge of superintending it (Mr. Goldby) was a person of the highest scientific attainments, and had conducted it in a mode creditable to himself. He was satisfied that when completed, it would reflect honour on the country, and would place science on a footing it had not hitherto occupied. The maintenance of the barrack accommodation throughout the United Kingdom naturally formed a great item in the estimate, and he had the satisfaction to state, that the saving effected this year, as compared with the last, amounted to 16,790l., notwithstanding the expenses incurred owing to the losses caused by the hurricane which took place in the West Indies. The repairs thereby rendered necessary had amounted to 4,152l., which must be considered as an entirely accidental expense. Therefore, 864 the saving on the barrack expenditure, including the repairs and support of the buildings, was 20,942l. He would now state to the House what he thought it would be interesting to show—that the Board of Ordnance, while keeping up the immense buildings necessary for the accommodation of the troops, were carrying on the expenditure with all possible attention to economy. The expenditure now was of a description very different from what it was in former days, and beneficial to the public in point of economy. The barrack expenditure, previously to being placed under the direction of the Ordnance, in 1821, amounted in Great Britain, to 143,809l., being at the rate of 5l. 5s. 11d. per man. In 1835 it was 64,118l., being at the rate of 3l. 9s. 4d. per man. The barrack expenditure in Ireland in 1821 had been conducted on a similar scale. It amounted to 134,838l., being at the rate of 4l. 11s. for each man. In 1835 it was only 54,919l., or 2l. 10s. 9d. per man. When it was considered that barrack accommodation for the British army in Great Britain, Ireland, and the colonies, was constructed for no less than 134,726 men, it would be seen, that as a natural consequence, a great outlay was required to maintain these buildings, particularly where the climates were so different, and where the barracks were liable to be damaged; and he considered, that under the circumstances, the sum now taken was the least possible, and might reasonably be supposed to be absolutely necessary for that particular branch of the service. He had stated briefly to the House some of the items of the estimates, contrasted with those of past years, and he had said, that he considered it unnecessary to trespass then for any very great length of time, but he would call the attention of the House to this particular subject—the absolute necessity of keeping the ordnance establishments of the country in an efficient and serviceable state. He hoped that no subjects connected with economy would ever be considered the primary object when the importance of that great branch of the defences of the country, and the necessity of providing the troops with commissariat supplies, were taken into consideration. He felt satisfied that the House, on the present occasion, would support this branch of the public service, and vote those supplies which they (Ministers) believed absolutely necessary, which they 865 would not seek if they did not consider so, and which they supposed the House would have no objection to grant, in order that this branch of the public service might be carried on with credit to the country, with efficiency in present circumstances, with the certainty of being efficient in the event of a war breaking out, and of being able to maintain the honour of the Crown. The hon. Member concluded by moving the different votes, which were severally agreed to without observation.